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05-28-2008, 05:01 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
i dont know what program you use,

but with adobe lightroom, you hit the b/w button and all the tones go into a grayscale, ie, no more colour, regardless of your monitor calibration.

but wait folks! thats not all

you then can still adjust each of the 8 colours individual grayscale range

and you can still add exposure, contrast, brightness and all that other junk

you have your entire histogram that you can screw around with.

these things matter more with calibration, but at the same time you can trust the histogram to avoid blowout.



it is your choice to under use the tools in front of you, however this bares no impact on their actual effectiveness.
I'm just not sure how much good all that tweakability will do if you can't depend on your monitor to give you an accurate representation of what the print will look like.
I use PS CS3, BTW.

05-28-2008, 05:29 PM   #17
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05-28-2008, 05:43 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
I'm just not sure how much good all that tweakability will do if you can't depend on your monitor to give you an accurate representation of what the print will look like.
I use PS CS3, BTW.
i'm not arguing that

i'm arguing your point that a photoshop black and white conversion is going to magicaly give you a brown photo.
05-29-2008, 04:44 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
i dont know what program you use,

but with adobe lightroom, you hit the b/w button and all the tones go into a grayscale, ie, no more colour, regardless of your monitor calibration.

but wait folks! thats not all

you then can still adjust each of the 8 colours individual grayscale range

and you can still add exposure, contrast, brightness and all that other junk

you have your entire histogram that you can screw around with.

these things matter more with calibration, but at the same time you can trust the histogram to avoid blowout.



it is your choice to under use the tools in front of you, however this bares no impact on their actual effectiveness.
I don;t know, I prefer the channel mixer in the GIMP.
I know is a lot cheaper than adobe whatever but it does the job well

05-29-2008, 05:17 AM   #20
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B&W developing

When I have B & W developed, I specify "no prints." Then I scan them all, and if there is a keeper in there, then I go have it printed properly on my next trip to the lab. I do this because I rarely don't print smaller than 8x10 and it seems like a waste to make such large prints before you know if the photos are worthy of it.
05-29-2008, 05:18 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
i'm not arguing that

i'm arguing your point that a photoshop black and white conversion is going to magicaly give you a brown photo.
I said that where?
Please be specific, I'm curious about where you got that bit of nonsense from.
If you don't think a calibrated system is important to the quality of the final image, there isn't much point in discussing this further is there?
05-29-2008, 05:59 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
I said that where?
Please be specific, I'm curious about where you got that bit of nonsense from.
If you don't think a calibrated system is important to the quality of the final image, there isn't much point in discussing this further is there?
QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
One of the keys to getting good B&W from digital is to have a completely calibrated workflow. Small variations in calibration that won't show up in a colour print will show up as a colour cast in monochrome. If you aren't using some sort of screen calibration device, B&W can be a nightmare.
and i already commented on monitor calibration, you seemed to have missed everything that i have said.
05-29-2008, 06:07 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
and i already commented on monitor calibration, you seemed to have missed everything that i have said.
And I said anything about magical brouwn photos? Send me some of the drugs you are using, I'd like to hallucinate for a while too?

05-29-2008, 06:21 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
And I said anything about magical brouwn photos? Send me some of the drugs you are using, I'd like to hallucinate for a while too?
so how can you get colour cast in a black and white conversion??!!!!

i simply picked a colour, if you dont like brown, lets stick to purple
05-29-2008, 11:57 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
so how can you get colour cast in a black and white conversion??!!!!

i simply picked a colour, if you dont like brown, lets stick to purple
Why not try answering the original question rather than engaging in these juvenile games of trying to score points off someone who has probably forgotten more than you know?

The original poster hasn't given any information regarding what program he is using, and I won't assume he has a big button option to get monochrome.

To answer the original question, I don't really think film is the answer here.
I've had the opportunity from working in the lab industry for a few decades to watch the progression from optical printing to digital printing, and frankly scanning 35mm film is, at best, a fools game when you have the option of a digital original capture.
With B&W film, you will have problems with dust (forget Digital ICE, it doesn't work with silver halide images), and scratches.
And then you will need to learn about curves to idealize the image
If you shoot C-41 monochrome, and have the lab make a CD, you are stuck with an RGB file, which means you have to do a monochrome conversion at some point.

In either of these scenarios, you need a calibrated monitor to get an accurate rendering.

For myself, I'd start with a digital original and learn how to do monochrome conversions properly. If you have a big button conversion in your imaging software, you can certainly use it, but it won't necessarily give you the best grayscale conversion possible.

So, you are then going to have to figure out how to do monochrome conversions. To do this accurately you still need to have a calibrated monitor, since you want to have an idea of what the final output will be from looking at the monitor.

If one is happy with out of the box, big button conversions, then just use them and be satisfied. I'm presuming that the original poster either isn't happy with them, or doesn't have a big button for making monochomes, since he has expressed a lack of satisfaction with the conversions he is doing.

Last edited by Wheatfield; 05-29-2008 at 01:09 PM.
05-29-2008, 08:28 PM   #26
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Interesting comments!

I have recently been using Bibble Lite for post processing and for me at least it is easy to use. I shoot digital 99% of the time in RAW, but have only tried B&W conversion a handful of times.

I am waiting for a delivery of Spyder II to calibrate my monitor, and I am looking for a used film scanner to play with!

I actually enjoy post processing and plan to get the film developed, and scan it myself, selecting only the best to keep on my computer and print.

Bob
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