[stevebrot]

Don't look

leica.overgaard.dk - Thorsten Overgaard's Leica Pages - Leica DMR dSLR digital back sample photos and test

Yep, proprietary and limited to R8 and R9 SLRs. It took its signalling from databack contacts and cost as much as a Leica M body. It had a short product run of only about 2 years. For a contemporary review:

Leica DMR Experience


Steve

[ChrisPlatt]

Call me cynical, but maybe they made it for the R bodies because they already knew they'd be killing off the Leica SLR line.
Had they made it for M cameras it might have cut into future sales of the M8, M9 etc...

Chris

[stevebrot]

Call me cynical, but maybe they made it for the R bodies because they already knew they'd be killing off the Leica SLR line.
Had they made it for M cameras it might have cut into future sales of the M8, M9 etc...

Chris

The R8 and R9 were born hideously deformed and made even more so with the DMR attached. We can be thankful for the small blessing that neither is being made anymore, though the mutant seed apparently made its way to Russia at some point.






Steve

[Xmas]

Yep, proprietary and limited to R8 and R9 SLRs. It took its signalling from databack contacts and cost as much as a Leica M body. It had a short product run of only about 2 years. For a contemporary review:

Leica DMR Experience


Steve

A replaceable back and any information from camera makes it more practical.
You could do a back for most film SLRs.
If it was not a volume design then it would be expensive.
This is only a hypothetical thread.
Lots of people liked their DMR.
Don't know if the impossible project has broken even yet?

[monochrome]

But . . . Film!!

[dsmithhfx]

Call me cynical, but maybe they made it for the R bodies because they already knew they'd be killing off the Leica SLR line.
Had they made it for M cameras it might have cut into future sales of the M8, M9 etc...

Chris

I believe the reason they stopped making the DMR is because Hasselblad bought out Imacon, and cut off Leica from the sensors either for competitive reasons, or the volumes were too small. It may also be that Leica realized they would never recover their r&d costs on this project, decided to cut their losses and moved on to more viable, dedicated digital bodies.

[Xmas]

I believe the reason they stopped making the DMR is because Hasselblad bought out Imacon, and cut off Leica from the sensors either for competitive reasons, or the volumes were too small. It may also be that Leica realized they would never recover their r&d costs on this project, decided to cut their losses and moved on to more viable, dedicated digital bodies.

Leica should have had a viable contract for sensor supply... Note 'should'.
They should have had 'second' sources as well.

But my point was they did it a a decade ago. And it's market was then niche.

You only make a profit if you sell 10000, 100000, 1000000,... Units at X USD?

Any one looking at a digital back or digital insert is wearing rose tinted shades or has a seeing dog.

[stevebrot]

You only make a profit if you sell 10000, 100000, 1000000,... Units at X USD?

At ~$5000 per pop (the street price of the DMR), you make a profit on each and every unit. It is the Leica way.

The reason we don't have digital film as a retrofit is mostly technical. For the most part signaling would be limited to models supporting a data back and would be model-specific for the most part even then (would require a full replacement back as with the DMR). This results in a fairly high cost to market and a fairly small market for any particular variant. I would expect less than 1% penetration for existing owners of film SLRs at a price point similar to that of an entry-level dSLR.


Steve

[dadipentak]

Chiming in late on this but "No--I have absolutely zero interest in a film camera." I had to wait 65 years for digital to come along so I could partake in the fun of photography.

[Danaher Dempsey]

If I want to shoot film, it won't be with my K1000 or other 35mm Pentax.

I'll take out my rangefinder. Bronica RF645 ... perhaps the best of the film era medium format rangefinders. It is easy to use, has flash and three lenses but nothing longer than 100mm (equivalent to 60mm). It is easier to use than Mamiya RFs.

I am waiting on buying my next digital Pentax ... I want Astrophotography capability built in. K3ii or ?

No I don't think a new film Pentax would be moving the film to compensate for the Earth's rotation.

[Xmas]

I would expect less than 1% penetration for existing owners of film SLRs at a price point similar to that of an entry-level dSLR.

Steve

Hi Steve

A) I'd not budget for 1%, even if you had said 'users of film SLRs', I'd not even consider... Even if it was like a Tamaron 2 kit with separate backs and common plug in sensor.
B) entry level DSLRs parts are made by automated machines and then built by robots. You need to expect a price like a new Rolli!

Borrowing money from bank or crowd funding would be the first hurdle to fail on.

Noel

[stevebrot]

Borrowing money from bank or crowd funding would be the first hurdle to fail on.

Be sure to budget extra for tooling to create hundreds of different backs and to purchase all the cameras needed to pull the metrics from.

I won't belabor the point much more, but the main issues are signalling "ready" and "exposure ended". Most prototypes to date have used manual buttons on a replacement back. In theory, "exposure ended" might be provided by the X-sync PC connection, though the reset timing for this circuit is not consistent across brands. A better solution might be had using the databack connections found on many models since the late 1970s. To use those requires a perfect match replacement back and proper reverse engineering of the data exchange interface. No, similar models from the same maker do not have identical backs.

So...high effort/costs to bring to market + low sales potential --> poor feasibility.

Just for fun... RE-35 | Digital cartridges for analog 35-mm cameras


Steve

[Danaher Dempsey]

Be sure to budget extra for tooling to create hundreds of different backs and to purchase all the cameras needed to pull the metrics from.

I won't belabor the point much more, but the main issues are signalling "ready" and "exposure ended". Most prototypes to date have used manual buttons on a replacement back. In theory, "exposure ended" might be provided by the X-sync PC connection, though the reset timing for this circuit is not consistent across brands. A better solution might be had using the databack connections found on many models since the late 1970s. To use those requires a perfect match replacement back and proper reverse engineering of the data exchange interface. No, similar models from the same maker do not have identical backs.

So...high effort/costs to bring to market + low sales potential --> poor feasibility.

Just for fun... RE-35 | Digital cartridges for analog 35-mm cameras


Steve

Steve thanks for the link to the non-existent Re35... I do not care about that.

I am waiting with my Bronica GS-1 for the Re67.

[brightseal]

I don't know which is worse , that film photography got thrown out like yesterday's trash or people actually think digital is better.

[Joe Dusel]

Hmmm... Time to dust off my ME Super and list it for sale.