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11-04-2015, 01:17 PM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by wizowel Quote
Why can't we have a sensor in there with our film?
It would get a bit crowded with both attempting to occupy the focal plane at the same time.


Steve


Last edited by stevebrot; 11-04-2015 at 01:27 PM.
11-04-2015, 02:33 PM   #77
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For going on twenty years we have been instructed that film is dead.
What trendy consumer now would want something so old-fashioned?

Chris
11-04-2015, 02:42 PM - 1 Like   #78
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My Theory of Camera Evolution, or Everything You Needed Was Available at the Turn of the Century (meaning 1900)

1. light tight box, some means to capture light, a lens, a way to time exposure, a way to set aperture, a way to focus. Any 'improvement' creates a new problem.

2. Evolution towards better shutters, better lenses and better manual focusing are all Good Things, though not absolutely essential.

3. First Camera Dream: Simplified Semi-Automatic and Automatic setting of exposure. The Semi Automatic gave us the clutched EV system - if you've used it, you probably hate it. Automatic exposure immediately brought on the problem of exposure compensation and the many many attempts to fix this - from manual compensation, which people forget to use, to fancy multi segment 4-D exposure meeting in order to solve that problem, and on and on.

4. Second Camera Dream: Auto Focus. Of course, once achieved, the problem is WHAT is it focusing on and how accurately. Which leads to multiple focus points and their manual selection - or if we forget to do so, automatic 4-D multi point focusing that can follow a gnat in a sandstorm.

And so on. All this automation makes things easier and faster but also more impersonal. And maybe the millenials with their gadget background find all the tweaks and other automatic adjustments second nature, I just can't keep most of them in my head. And the manual functions are correspondingly harder or slower to operate.

Hence, for each type of camera, there is a golden age when it was the epitome of development and the pinnacle of photography. The Large Format SLR in the early years of the 20th century. The Graflex after that. Then the 35mm range finder. And then, thanks to Pentax and the instant return mirror, 35mm SLRs.
11-04-2015, 02:51 PM   #79
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Ok time to give a full confession:

Pentax K: K1000, K1000SE, KM, KX, K2,K2DMD, MX, LX, Super A, Exakta HS 10 (my first SLR), Almaz 103 (two of them).

Lenses...too many to count

Nikon F: FM, F2A, F2AS, Kiev 17

Lenses: 24mm f2.8, 35-210mm zoom, 50mm Nikkor S-C, 50 mm f1.8 AiS, 50mm F2 Ai, Helios 81N, Nikkor 85mm f1.8, Granit 11.

Canon FD: FTb(n), F-1n, F-1N (two of them), T90.

Lenses: 50mm f1.8, 1.4 and 1.2, 55mm f1.2, 100 mm f2.5, 35-105 f3.5-4.5, other zooms.

M42: too long to write them down

Praktica B : B200, BCX, BC1, Jenaflex, BX20S.

Lenses: 20mm f2.8 Flektogon, 28mm f2.8, Pentacon 50mm f1.8, Pancolar 50mm f1.8 and 1.4, Vario-Prakticar 85-200 mm f4....excellent system!

Fuji X system: STX2 (broken), two AX5

Lenses: 50mm f1.8, 50mm f1.6, 28mm f3.5, zooms....

Mamiya 645E and 80mm f2.8

Bronica ETRsi with 75mm f.28

11-04-2015, 02:55 PM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nesster Quote

Hence, for each type of camera, there is a golden age when it was the epitome of development and the pinnacle of photography. The Large Format SLR in the early years of the 20th century. The Graflex after that. Then the 35mm range finder. And then, thanks to Pentax and the instant return mirror, 35mm SLRs.
And in each step of the way some of the image quality got worse the smaller the negative got even though improvements in lenses and film occurred.

I was at a museum looking at some old 16x20 prints from 8x10 photographs dated 1912 of some city scenes. Granted a modern enlarger with a good lens was used but the images were stunning in terms of resolution. I could see the threads on the clothing and other fine detail that a small format film camera today couldn't even touch. But of course that older film couldn't handle blue and some tonality was lacking compared today but I was impressed for a picture in 1912.
11-04-2015, 03:02 PM   #81
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tuco, my experience also. Looking at landscapes, it seemed like resolution just kept going, tiny little details in a vast frame were very naturally there. I think this was the guy Carleton E. Watkins: The Town on the Hill, New Almaden (1989.1083) | Heilbrunn Timeline of Art History | The Metropolitan Museum of Art

http://wilderness.org/11-incredible-wilderness-photographs-1800s
11-04-2015, 05:37 PM   #82
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M42 - 3, lenses - 6
Pentax K - 4, lenses - 10
Nikon - 1, lenses - 3
Minolta Hi-Matic 7Sll - 1
Rolleiflex Automat - 2
Ikoflex - 2
Mamiya 645 - 2, lenses - 5
Mamiya RB67 - 2, lenses - 2
Burke&James 4x5 - 1, lenses - 3
Ansco 8x10 Studio - 1, lens - 1

odd stuff - Kodak Brownie No. 0, Kodak 35, Holga Wide Pinhole, Ansco 620 folder, several other vintage Kodaks

(my wife hates ebay)
11-04-2015, 06:01 PM   #83
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quote=tuco;3421190]And in each step of the way some of the image quality got worse the smaller the negative got even though improvements in lenses and film occurred.

I was at a museum looking at some old 16x20 prints from 8x10 photographs dated 1912 of some city scenes. Granted a modern enlarger with a good lens was used but the images were stunning in terms of resolution. I could see the threads on the clothing and other fine detail that a small format film camera today couldn't even touch. But of course that older film couldn't handle blue and some tonality was lacking compared today but I was impressed for a picture in 1912.[/quote]
This one from 1896. My grandfather circled lower left. Good resolution, but bad on the edges.
on Flickr
[


Last edited by arnold; 11-04-2015 at 07:56 PM.
11-04-2015, 07:33 PM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by arnold Quote
Good resolution, but bad on the edges.
Not just resolution, but excellent contrast and tonality too. What a fascinating photo -- what's going on?

To contribute to the original topic, my systems with at least 2 lenses:

Pentax K (plus M42 with adapter)
Pentax 645
Minolta SR (old family camera, which I've just got my hands on again)
4x5 (Arca-Swiss F-line, lenses on Technika boards)

and I am lusting after a 6x17 camera.
11-04-2015, 08:01 PM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by baro-nite Quote
Not just resolution, but excellent contrast and tonality too. What a fascinating photo -- what's going on?
Johannesburg South Africa, the crowd awaits the court verdict on the instigators of the Jameson Raid. My grand father was involved with recruiting men, but regretted it later. They were sentenced to death, but later commuted to jail.
https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=9&cad=rja&u...WjTsWPnWbMSq3g
11-05-2015, 06:27 AM   #86
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Wow, great story to go with a excellent photo.
11-05-2015, 01:34 PM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by arnold Quote
quote=tuco;3421190]
This one from 1896. My grandfather circled lower left. Good resolution, but bad on the edges.
on Flickr
The 1912 images I was seeing were much better than this 1896. The images I was seeing were from a really good lens (for its day), apparently.
11-05-2015, 02:05 PM   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nesster Quote
My Theory of Camera Evolution, or Everything You Needed Was Available at the Turn of the Century (meaning 1900)
Well said and (sadly) not well understood. Despite the advances of the last two decades, we figuratively stand on the shoulders of giants in regards to both digital and film photography with those giants having been dead for almost 100 years.


Steve
11-05-2015, 02:06 PM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cuthbert Quote
Ok time to give a full confession:

Pentax K: K1000, K1000SE, KM, KX, K2,K2DMD, MX, LX, Super A, Exakta HS 10 (my first SLR), Almaz 103 (two of them).

Lenses...too many to count

Nikon F: FM, F2A, F2AS, Kiev 17

Lenses: 24mm f2.8, 35-210mm zoom, 50mm Nikkor S-C, 50 mm f1.8 AiS, 50mm F2 Ai, Helios 81N, Nikkor 85mm f1.8, Granit 11.

Canon FD: FTb(n), F-1n, F-1N (two of them), T90.

Lenses: 50mm f1.8, 1.4 and 1.2, 55mm f1.2, 100 mm f2.5, 35-105 f3.5-4.5, other zooms.

M42: too long to write them down

Praktica B : B200, BCX, BC1, Jenaflex, BX20S.

Lenses: 20mm f2.8 Flektogon, 28mm f2.8, Pentacon 50mm f1.8, Pancolar 50mm f1.8 and 1.4, Vario-Prakticar 85-200 mm f4....excellent system!

Fuji X system: STX2 (broken), two AX5

Lenses: 50mm f1.8, 50mm f1.6, 28mm f3.5, zooms....

Mamiya 645E and 80mm f2.8

Bronica ETRsi with 75mm f.28
I thought you dabbled in the LTM and M mount space as well.


Steve
11-05-2015, 02:10 PM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
I was at a museum looking at some old 16x20 prints from 8x10 photographs dated 1912 of some city scenes.
QuoteOriginally posted by Nesster Quote
I think this was the guy Carleton E. Watkins: The Town on the Hill, New Almaden (1989.1083) | Heilbrunn Timeline of Art History | The Metropolitan Museum of Art
I was watching a documentary on the history of photography in the Columbia River Gorge a few nights ago and much of the program was devoted to Watkins' work in the gorge and the wet colloidon process. I have seen his 18x22 contact prints (ca 1860s-1870s) in person and they are spectacular.

http://www.opb.org/television/programs/oregonexperience/segment/the-river-they-saw/

The video at the link above is highly recommended!


Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 11-05-2015 at 02:23 PM.
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