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12-09-2015, 07:04 PM   #16
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Color filters are great for black and white, but using them with an SLR is unpleasant.
I do use them with non-SLR viewfinder cameras but stick to a polarizer with my SLRs.

Chris

12-09-2015, 07:11 PM   #17
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I agree Chris, using a polariser with an RF is ...interesting. I nearly always use colour filters on my Leica monochrom.
12-09-2015, 09:30 PM   #18
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Like Digitalis says, ditch the UV filter. B&W film is not sensitive to UV, so there is no point to it. My preference is orange filters. Not as contrasts as red, a bit more than yellow. For portraits, a green filter makes skin look good. Don't be afraid of film. At least B&W. Easy to handle and is not near as temperature sensitive as color. With a daylight developing tank, you don't need a dark room. (Patterson makes a good line.). Just a dark place to load the tank. (changing bag, or a closet off a room with the lights out at night)
12-10-2015, 04:50 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by ambaker Quote
B&W film is not sensitive to UV, so there is no point to it.
I have it mainly as sacrificial protection for the lenses (it proved its value once in a very big way), and because up until now, colour is the only film I've shot with since getting back into emulsions. And because if I take close-ups of the dogs, I would rather be wiping the drool off the filter than the front element.

I'm certainly not afraid of film - I must have shot at least a dozen rolls since May! But Black & White is a different animal from colour. With colour you see roughly what you get (allowing for colour casts with lighting); with black and white... let's just say that the last lot of B&W pics I took were of a hike on a wet, muddy day and it sort of worked out and sort of didn't - the people and the trees were nicely exposed, but the mud was blown out for some reason and the pictures look as if we are hiking through a snowscape. I'll call it a happy accident and leave it at that. I'm currently busily poring through "The Asahi Pentax Way", because aside from giving me a deeper glimpse into the inner workings of the Spotmatic, it's also a very good basic photography reference guide from the era when B&W was still very prominent alongside colour as an amateur film.

---------- Post added 10-12-15 at 09:04 ----------

Okay - film in camera and bound to be used soon-ish - check.

Ordered:
Patterson tank with reel and spare reel; check.
Thermometer - check (metal dial one so it doesn't shatter if dropped or played with by unauthorised small fingers).
Darkbag - check.
Various sized bottles for chemicals - check.
Graduated measuring cylinder, 600ml - check. (Mixing jugs I will buy cheap at Walmart or somewhere; small volumes up to 50ml I can get syringes for.)
Developer powder - check; D76 for this first experiment (they won't let me buy liquids online and Amazon charges through the nose).
Fixer powder - check (likewise above).
Stop bath not available as powder - I'll have to try it with water first time round; I've seen a lot of people doing that online & it seems to work for them.
Wetting agent - not available as powder; shall try with detergent.
Negative holders - check.

I can't think of anything else I really NEED to get started.


Last edited by pathdoc; 12-10-2015 at 05:35 AM.
12-10-2015, 06:08 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
I have it mainly as sacrificial protection for the lenses (it proved its value once in a very big way), and because up until now, colour is the only film I've shot with since getting back into emulsions. And because if I take close-ups of the dogs, I would rather be wiping the drool off the filter than the front element.

I'm certainly not afraid of film - I must have shot at least a dozen rolls since May! But Black & White is a different animal from colour. With colour you see roughly what you get (allowing for colour casts with lighting); with black and white... let's just say that the last lot of B&W pics I took were of a hike on a wet, muddy day and it sort of worked out and sort of didn't - the people and the trees were nicely exposed, but the mud was blown out for some reason and the pictures look as if we are hiking through a snowscape. I'll call it a happy accident and leave it at that. I'm currently busily poring through "The Asahi Pentax Way", because aside from giving me a deeper glimpse into the inner workings of the Spotmatic, it's also a very good basic photography reference guide from the era when B&W was still very prominent alongside colour as an amateur film.

---------- Post added 10-12-15 at 09:04 ----------

Okay - film in camera and bound to be used soon-ish - check.

Ordered:
Patterson tank with reel and spare reel; check.
Thermometer - check (metal dial one so it doesn't shatter if dropped or played with by unauthorised small fingers).
Darkbag - check.
Various sized bottles for chemicals - check.
Graduated measuring cylinder, 600ml - check. (Mixing jugs I will buy cheap at Walmart or somewhere; small volumes up to 50ml I can get syringes for.)
Developer powder - check; D76 for this first experiment (they won't let me buy liquids online and Amazon charges through the nose).
Fixer powder - check (likewise above).
Stop bath not available as powder - I'll have to try it with water first time round; I've seen a lot of people doing that online & it seems to work for them.
Wetting agent - not available as powder; shall try with detergent.
Negative holders - check.

I can't think of anything else I really NEED to get started.
Sounds like a lot of fun! I've been thinking of doing this myself with my film gear... I don't shoot film much these days..but black and white would be fun. Rough ball park number if I may ask? What has that checked list cost so far? Thanks! And good luck !

Al
12-10-2015, 06:11 AM   #21
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Common tools not on your list is can opener to open the film canister in the dark and scissors to cut the film at the end of the canister.
I also use distilled water for mixing with all the chemicals.
Also a stopwatch or count down timer.



After the first roll - or two, you will be good to go. I don't even use a thermometer anymore.
12-10-2015, 06:16 AM   #22
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It would do me little good to detail costs because where you are is different from where I am, and this influences a whole lot of things like the price to start with, local sales taxes as applicable, the ability to buy locally things that cannot be shipped, etc. The good thing about it is that the bulk of the cost is not for consumables. Once I have gotten comfortable with B&W, I shall have to see if I can get hold of some colour developers and have a go at home C41, but that's a project for the longer term.

QuoteQuote:
Common tools not on your list is can opener to open the film canister in the dark and scissors to cut the film at the end of the canister.
I also use distilled water for mixing with all the chemicals.
Also a stopwatch or count down timer.
True, but those are things I already have or can get at the local supermarket any day of the week. The rest, not so much. If I can find the right kind of washing soda I'm going to give caffenol a go at some stage, just for fun; if it gives reasonable results, it will remove the need to buy developer all the time. I've even heard of people cooking up their own fixing agents, but details on how to do that are sketchier and the chemistry harder to obtain (almost easier to buy the shop stuff).

Last edited by pathdoc; 12-10-2015 at 06:23 AM.
12-10-2015, 09:49 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote

Stop bath not available as powder - I'll have to try it with water first time round; I've seen a lot of people doing that online & it seems to work for them.
I believe you can use diluted white vinegar, thinking diluted 1:3 or 1:4, the exact ratio is probably not critical.

12-10-2015, 06:31 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by LesDMess Quote
Common tools not on your list is can opener to open the film canister
...or simply don't rewind the film all the way into the canister. I can't remember the last time I actually pried a canister open.


Steve
12-10-2015, 06:51 PM   #25
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I use indicator stop bath for prints but prefer a plain water stop for film.

Chris
12-10-2015, 07:04 PM - 1 Like   #26
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I use plain water as a stop bath. Film is not as needy as paper for a stop bath, at least at 35 and 120 film sizes. It takes a bit to "see" in B&W. We as humans are used to seeing in color, and so have to adapt to how film "sees" a scene. B&W is about light, shape, and texture. I highly recommend at least reading up on the zone system. Ansel Adams is not the only photographer, by far, who was good at B&W. The zone system is a good way to help understand B&W. Do I use the zone system? Usually not. But it helped me understand how to anticipate what the film was going to do. There are plenty of other good resources, this one is just one of the easier ones to find.
12-11-2015, 10:24 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChrisPlatt Quote
I use indicator stop bath for prints but prefer a plain water stop for film.

Chris
For film, I use indicator stop bath diluted 1+1 one-shot.


Steve
12-11-2015, 11:05 PM   #28
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I've gotten some great B&W pics with filters and also some great ones without filters.
My policy is to leave the filter off when I don't know which colour would be best.

Plus you'll learn that some films don't need the same filters as others.
For example Kodak Tmax films have a purple dye.
So I always use a lighter filter with it than I would with Ilford which uses a much lighter Blue Dye.

Which brings up another point.
When developing Tmax films I always pre-wash them until the water remains clear. In my experience this takes about 5 minutes with a Paterson daylight tank with a slow steady drip.
Otherwise all your chemistry looks contaminated instantly.
I'm not as worried with Ilford, since it isn't as obvious.
12-11-2015, 11:54 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChrisPlatt Quote
I use indicator stop bath for prints but prefer a plain water stop for film.

Chris
QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
For film, I use indicator stop bath diluted 1+1 one-shot.


Steve
For my films, because the developers are so slow I can use water baths. For prints I use two different develop baths with a water bath between them: one slow, low contrast developer bath for shadows, a brief rinse, then into the faster, high contrast developer bath to bring out the highlights and an indicator stop bath and fix with intensive washing, which is a must for fiber papers.
12-17-2015, 09:08 AM   #30
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Update - Paterson tanks, chemicals and bottles for stock solutions and waste have all arrived; still waiting on the darkbag (it wasn't worth the extra $30 to have it come from the same source). Depending on just how dark it is in the basement (will have to check that out tonight), I might just be ready to go.

T-max 100 in my camera (I can get that on Amazon with free shipping, which is good), and I'll be taking pictures of trivial things on the first roll so there's nothing to cry over if I stuff it up.

Is there any reason I should not mix the developer (D76 powder; they wouldn't ship liquids) up at 1:1 dilution from the start (i.e. twice the recommended volume of water), or would this be a mistake for some reason?
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