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12-25-2015, 10:49 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by disconnekt Quote
I may just end up pushing the film to ISO 800 & have fun with it (want to be able to handhold it at f/8-16 range)
If you want to try handheld IR - you would probably be better off sticking to the f/1.2~f/4 aperture range.Using f/8 and f/16 with a dark filter like the R72, your shutter speeds will be so low it will be practically impossible to hand hold, and get sharp results. Even if you push the film to 3200 which incidentally, is not what SFX is designed for.

IR photography isn't something that is done casually, it is a dedicated field due to the number of technical hurdles involved.


Last edited by Digitalis; 12-25-2015 at 10:59 PM.
12-26-2015, 03:59 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
If you want to try handheld IR - you would probably be better off sticking to the f/1.2~f/4 aperture range.Using f/8 and f/16 with a dark filter like the R72, your shutter speeds will be so low it will be practically impossible to hand hold, and get sharp results. Even if you push the film to 3200 which incidentally, is not what SFX is designed for.

IR photography isn't something that is done casually, it is a dedicated field due to the number of technical hurdles involved.
If you don't have fresh Kodak IR you need a tripod or clamp.
Pushing is a joke don't , instead you need a cable release you set the shutter to B and say one elephant.
No one sends mono to D&P shop , instead get a tank, thermometer, film clip, clothes peg and changing bag.
A lot cheaper than memory card and PC, typically free!
Fomapan 400 is cheap in 135, cheaper on 100 foot bobbin.
500 mls or Rodinal at 1:100 goes a long way.
You shoot IR for the White trees you need no wind for 1/2 second.
This is a film sub forum?
12-26-2015, 04:24 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Xmas Quote
Fomapan 400 is cheap in 135, cheaper on 100 foot bobbin.
SFX is still the best film to go for, if you want to do IR photography:

I think you can still get Rollei IR 400/820*, but it is a shame both Efke 820 and Kodak HIE were discontinued - though truth be told: they were a pain to handle.

Spectral sensitivity curves for common B&W films:



*though I think you can only get it in 120 format, as 35mm would be grainy as hell.

Last edited by Digitalis; 12-26-2015 at 04:31 AM.
12-26-2015, 07:04 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
no, if you are using the film without an IR filter, the cameras meter at ISO200 should be perfectly accurate. However, using the Hoya R72 filter reduces exposure by four stops.
Would an MX be able to meter correctly with the R72 filter attached, or is it generally better to meter first then attach the filter?

12-26-2015, 07:49 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by clockworkrat Quote
Would an MX be able to meter correctly with the R72 filter attached
possibly, the only camera I know that would be fine with the IR filter on the lens would be the LX - that camera can handle really low EVs.

QuoteOriginally posted by clockworkrat Quote
is it generally better to meter first then attach the filter?
Meter first for ambient light - and subtract four stops, that will give you a rough idea of how long is needed when the filter is attached. Also don't forget to use the IR focusing mark on your lens( unless it is apochromatic)
12-26-2015, 08:58 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by disconnekt Quote
I have a Sears TLS (Re-badged Ricoh TLS) only goes to ISO 25, so going to ISO 12 (or even 6 like some sites are saying to do) really isn't an option.
I may just end up pushing the film to ISO 800 & have fun with it (want to be able to handhold it at f/8-16 range), since I'm going to end up paying an extra $2 bucks for the extra processing when I send it out to get it developed anyway.
You can't go "handheld" because of two things. 1) the slow shutter speeds will cause camera shake (as mentioned by Digitalis). 2) you can't see or compose thru the viewfinder because the R72 filter is opaque to your vision.

You need to put the camera on the tripod, compose, focus, adjust for focus shift, THEN put on the filter, followed by metering and exposure. Then bracket, bracket, bracket your exposures.

Also, you need to load the IR sensitive film into the camera in a darkroom or changing bag.

The only way to go "handheld" is to use an RF camera, because you don't view thru the lens. That is what I did with HIE film using a Canon 7/7s with an f 0.9 lens wide open. I would load three bodies, then move the lens from camera to camera.

IR is not easy, that is why I suggested trying first on you digital camera before using film. You have to buy the same filter anyway for either. You also will need to use a tripod for either. You only gain that "glow factor" by using film, because of the lack of the anti-halation backing on HIE. I've taken thousands of IR images. Digital is so much easier. That is why IR film has been getting harder and harder to find.
12-26-2015, 09:16 AM   #37
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You can get rollei IR in 35mm, it's not too bad. You can hand held it with an slr, if you don't mind lomo framing... :P

Here are some spotmatic photos I took on 35mm Rollei IR, some with a r72 filter.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/bobbotron/albums/72157648216151944

I have since bought a rangefinder for IR work, as mentioned above it's the way to go. It's really tripod only work.

Last edited by bobbotron; 12-26-2015 at 09:29 AM.
12-26-2015, 10:24 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by bobbotron Quote
You can get rollei IR in 35mm, it's not too bad. You can hand held it with an slr, if you don't mind lomo framing... :P

Here are some spotmatic photos I took on 35mm Rollei IR, some with a r72 filter.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/bobbotron/albums/72157648216151944

I have since bought a rangefinder for IR work, as mentioned above it's the way to go. It's really tripod only work.
What RF did you get?

How does rollei compare to hie? I have been using the hie and IR ektachrome I have stored in the freezer. I don't know if I can get the IR ektachrome processed any more.

12-26-2015, 05:20 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by lmd91343 Quote
what I did with HIE film using a Canon 7/7s with an f 0.9 lens wide open.
That lens is far from apochromatic, focusing would have been fun.

QuoteOriginally posted by lmd91343 Quote
R72 filter is opaque to your vision
Incorrect, it is possible to see through the R72. RM90 filters are opaque: but the R72 lets some visible light through, though it takes several seconds for eyes to adjust. You will need an f/1.2~f/1.8 lens and a good eyecup on your camera.

QuoteOriginally posted by bobbotron Quote
have since bought a rangefinder for IR work, as mentioned above it's the way to go
I agree, SLRs are a pain to use with B&W contrast filters hence why I use my Leica monochrom for dedicated B&W work and Leica M8 and film Leicas for IR work.

Last edited by Digitalis; 12-26-2015 at 05:27 PM.
12-26-2015, 07:14 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
That lens is far from apochromatic, focusing would have been fun.
Almost all of my IR with that lens were landscapes at a distance, I had very little in terms of focus issues. I've posted a couple of IR photos on this forum taken with it. Check my album/gallery if you like.


QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
Incorrect, it is possible to see through the R72. RM90 filters are opaque: but the R72 lets some visible light through, though it takes several seconds for eyes to adjust. You will need an f/1.2~f/1.8 lens and a good eyecup on your camera.
I've never been able to see thru it with a f 1.4 lens, most recently just a few days ago. I I have tried more than once. It has a 720nm cut off. Exceptional people can see to 750nm. In a lightless room with a 5 cell 140 lumen flashlight held to the R72, it cannot project any light. I can see only a very, very dim red spot looking end on. I can't imagine what it would be like outside.

Yes it allows a slight amount of red light (720-750nm) thru, but not enough to use for my 60 yo vision and many other people's.

QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
I agree, SLRs are a pain to use with B&W contrast filters hence why I use my Leica monochrom for dedicated B&W work and Leica M8 and film Leicas for IR work.
Nice cameras. What LTM and M lenses are apochromatic?
12-26-2015, 08:26 PM   #41
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Just for reference the difference between standard panchromatic rendering and NIR is rather dramatic.


Left - Pentax K5IIs- SMCP-FA77mm f/1.8 Limited with Hoya R72 Filter + 11mm extension tube. Right: The same camera/Lens combination sans the R72 IR filter, straight B&W conversion.


QuoteOriginally posted by lmd91343 Quote
What LTM and M lenses are apochromatic?
Nearly all the M mount 135mm and 90mm lenses are apochromatic. There is currently a Leica APO-Summicron-M 50mm f/2 ASPH - an expensive lens to be sure, but optically without equal. It gives the Zeiss 55mm f/1.4 T* Distagon OTUS a real run for its money at f/2.8~f/4, at f/5.6 and above the the lenses are practically identical in terms of image quality. Though the Leica APO-Summicron-M 50mm f/2 ASPH lens is literally half the size, and weighs considerably less than the Zeiss 55mm f/1.4 T* Distagon OTUS*. Another comparison I have been doing is the Zeiss OTUS 85mm f/1.4 APO Vs the Leica APO-Summicron-M 90mm f/2 ASPH, again the Leica lens is more than able to hold its own in terms of image quality while being a fraction of the size and weight of the Zeiss lens.

*though, it is nearly three times the price.

Last edited by Digitalis; 12-27-2015 at 09:52 AM.
12-26-2015, 09:29 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
Just for reference the difference between standard panchromatic rendering and NIR is rather dramatic.

Left - Pentax K5IIs- SMCP-FA77mm f/1.8 Limited with Hoya R72 Filter + 11mm extension tube. Right: The same camera/Lens combination sans the R72 IR filter, straight B&W conversion.




Nearly all the M mount 135mm and 90mm lenses are apochromatic. There is currently a Leica APO-Summicron-M 50mm f/2 ASPH - an expensive lens to be sure, but optically without equal. It gives the Zeiss 55mm f/1.4 T* Distagon OTUS a real run for its money at f/2.8~f/4, at f/5.6 and above the the lenses are practically identical in terms of image quality. Though the Leica APO-Summicron-M 50mm f/2 ASPH lens is literally half the size, and weighs considerably less than the Zeiss 55mm f/1.4 T* Distagon OTUS*. Another comparison I have been doing is the Zeiss OTUS 85mm f/1.4 APO Vs the Leica APO-Summicron-M 90mm f/2 ASPH, again the Leica lens is more than able to hold its own in terms of image quality while being a fraction of the size and weight of the Zeiss lens.

*though, it is nearly three times the price.
I like that normal light flower.

I just checked that Leica lens price. That is quite a price. I can't look at modern RF lenses prices. My wife would kill me if she saw. Almost all of my RF lenses are used Canon brand from the 60's and '70s and only one recently made lens.
12-27-2015, 02:28 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by clockworkrat Quote
Would an MX be able to meter correctly with the R72 filter attached, or is it generally better to meter first then attach the filter?
Meter won't work normally use a note book and bracket.
Fomapan 400 will have a different signature than SFX but you will still get white leaf effect on a sunny day.
12-27-2015, 03:14 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Xmas Quote
Fomapan 400 will have a different signature than SFX but you will still get white leaf effect on a sunny day.
I would recommend one stop overexposure with Fomapan, it isn't as sensitive to IR as SFX and negative films perform better with some overexposure. I have been in the habit of exposing my ISO 400 films at ISO320, and ISO 100 films at 64 instead of the rated EI, that slight overexposure helps to bring out the shadows.
12-27-2015, 09:31 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
I would recommend one stop overexposure with Fomapan, it isn't as sensitive to IR as SFX and negative films perform better with some overexposure. I have been in the habit of exposing my ISO 400 films at ISO320, and ISO 100 films at 64 instead of the rated EI, that slight overexposure helps to bring out the shadows.
Confirmed even 250ISO may not be enough with Microphen normally if you can meter but I'd not meter with a deep or black filter, try 2 or three stops brackets...
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