[disconnekt]

Been thinking on getting a IR filter & playing around it with some B&W film on my film camera.
Only info I found online related to either using IR filters on DSLR's or converting a DSLR, but nothing about using IR filter on film camera's.
Anyone offer any tips/leave any info/tips?

Don't want to use B&W IR film.

[bobbotron]

What kind of film do you want to use? It really depends, some react to the IR spectrum, some don't. Your best bet is to get some IR film, or at least something like rollei retro 80s or 400s, which respond to IR.

[Digitalis]

Don't want to use B&W IR film.

Let me get this straight - you want to get the effect of IR without using IR film? the IR filter on its own won't give you the IR effect, you need a film that is sensitive to IR as well to get the look of IR. Commercial B&W films are made to be as insensitive as possible to IR/UV wavelengths. There are some films that can be used with an IR filter with a wide bandpass but the exposure times needed are very long - substantially longer than what would be needed for IR film, and images made this way don't really look the same as an actual IR image would.. And as far as I recall most of them have been discontinued.

You will need an IR filter with a wide bandpass, a Hoya R72 is a good place to start as it lets some visible red light through.


Pentax ME Super - SMCP-FA 77mm f/1.8 Limited on Ilford SFX200 with Hoya R72 filter

[Alex645]

I have shot with Ilford SFX 200 which is not a "true" IR film, but is highly sensitive to the deep red range with a Hoya R72 filter. It's easy to process and not too hard to shoot at ISO 200 although the filter is incredibly dense and will require you to use a tripod with relatively slow shutter speeds even in full sun.

Back in the day, I used to shoot Ektachrome Infrared Color slide film and got some amazing effects with a #15 deep yellow filter. But I didn't think that color infrared film was still made and sold. Infrared is also much more sensitive to heat, so even kept in cold storage would make me concerned about any hopes with expired film.

Digital IR solutions are more costly, but much easier to execute.

[gofour3]

Anyone offer any tips/leave any info/tips?

As previously mentioned Ilford SFX is a good place to start. When shooting IR film you have to account for a focus shift, see this from the Pentax KX camera manual:

Phil.

[bobbotron]

Let me get this straight - you want to get the effect of IR without using IR film? the IR filter on its own won't give you the IR effect, you need a film that is sensitive to IR as well to get the look of IR. Commercial B&W films are made to be as insensitive as possible to IR/UV wavelengths there are some films that can be used with an IR filter with a wide bandpass but the exposure times needed are very long - substantially longer than what would be needed for IR film, and images made this way don't really look the same as an actual IR image would.. And as far as I recall most of them have been discontinued.

You will need an IR filter with a wide bandpass, a Hoya R72 is a good place to start as it lets some visible red light through.


Pentax ME Super - SMCP-FA 77mm f/1.8 Limited on Ilford SFX200 with Hoya R72 filter

I was being kind. Digitalis speaks the truth, you really need an IR sensitive film!

[Digitalis]

Ilford SFX 200 which is not a "true" IR film

Quite right, Technically what we are talking about is the NIR or Near-infared spectrum of 750-1000nm, not true infrared which is around 1500nm to 8000nm. Ilford SFX 200 is basically a panchromatic film, and can be used as such. However, compared to standard panchromatic films SFX has an abnormal amount of red sensitivity, extending far beyond common panchromatic films like T-MAX 100, Fuji Neopan 100, Ilford Pan-F and Delta 100.

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Last edited by Digitalis; 12-18-2015 at 09:31 PM.

[disconnekt]

What kind of film do you want to use? It really depends, some react to the IR spectrum, some don't. Your best bet is to get some IR film, or at least something like rollei retro 80s or 400s, which respond to IR.

I just wanted to see if there was any other ways to do B&W IR on film besides having to get IR B&W film.
Was planning to try it on Illford Delta film, but open to trying other types of film.

I know that most places don't process IR film (or if they do, they'll charge extra), so I just wanted to try using a IR filter on B&W film first and see what happens.

[Digitalis]

I know that most places don't process IR film

You don't have to tell them it's IR if you use SFX200, and if they do charge you extra for using that film they are cheating you.Any ordinary B&W film developer such as ID-11 can be used with SFX.

I just wanted to try using a IR filter on B&W film first and see what happens.

If you do this you are going to have extremely long shutter times and as a consequence: reciprocity failure will become problematic. And even then if you use a regular panchromatic film you will not get the same effect as using an IR sensitive film which negates the purpose of the experiment really.

[Alex645]

I just wanted to see if there was any other ways to do B&W IR on film besides having to get IR B&W film.
Was planning to try it on Illford Delta film, but open to trying other types of film.

I know that most places don't process IR film (or if they do, they'll charge extra), so I just wanted to try using a IR filter on B&W film first and see what happens.

Ok...now I understand your question. Although most films are sensitive to the ultraviolet end of the visible spectrum, panchromatic black and white film emulsions have almost no sensitivity to the infrared range. The only exception that approaches that end of the spectrum is Ilford SFX 200, but to truly get the real dreamy dramatic foliage, white flesh tones, pitch black skies, only IR films achieve the best results.

The only go-around to simulate IR may be to scan a b&w negative and then manipulate the channel mixer in PS or use a preset with Nik's Silver Efex Pro.

[Digitalis]

to simulate IR may be to scan a b&w negative and then manipulate the channel mixer in PS

That won't work on a monochrome image, as the channel mixer requires there to be more than one channel of information typically in the form of a colour RGB image.

[Alex645]

That won't work on a monochrome image, as the channel mixer requires there to be more than one channel of information typically in the form of a colour RGB image.

True, sorry totally wouldn't work with a monochrome film. But it should work if it were a color neg...right?

[gofour3]

Any ordinary B&W film developer such as ID-11 can be used with SFX.

Yep, also works crossed processed as a positive by DR5 Chrome. (Denver)



Phil.

[lmd91343]

IMHO, your approach is a bit backwards. Learn IR photography with your digital camera first. That is for two reasons. First, your cost while learning will be much cheaper. Second, IR has a steeper learning curve than visible light photography.

The cost difference between digital and film is obvious. Plus it takes more image captures to learn IR, compounding the cost. If you assume $25 for film and developing, with four "good" results per roll, your cost is about $6 per "good" shot.

The technique and visualization process for IR requires more learning than visual spectrum photography. Your visualization process is harder to learn. Tones, textures, opaqueness of materials are different. This results in images with a different expression than anticipated. After thousands of image captures, I am still surprised at the results. Exposure estimation is harder. Bracketing for exposure is required. With the bracketing and visualization problems, I was happy to get four or so "good" images from a 36 exposure roll. Throw in focus shift problems, especially with lenses without an IR mark will further complicate the learning. Additionally there are lenses that are unsuitable for IR because of hot spots. When you use IR film, you will need to load it in a changing bag.

With film you will have a long lag time between exposure and self criticism. How long will you remember the details of the shot and scene before you see the results? Plus you will pay for one roll of film and its development to get four "good" images. With the R72 filter, you will need a tripod. This is a lot of work and a long time for a small number of images that cost a lot.

Learn IR with your digital camera first, then transfer your knowledge to film. With digital the cost will be cheaper, the learning feedback immediate. When you feel good with digital, having mastered the visualization and technique, then move to the more expensive and slower feedback film.

P.S. By "good", I mean exposure and having the tone and texture expected, not composition, emotion evocation, lighting, and shadows.

[disconnekt]

I'd rather spend $40-ish bucks on a used filter, a roll of film & developing it, than spending $200+ to convert my DSLR camera/get one that's already converted.