Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
12-18-2015, 05:26 PM   #1
Veteran Member
disconnekt's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Riverside, CA
Posts: 377
Tips on using a IR filter on film cameras?

Been thinking on getting a IR filter & playing around it with some B&W film on my film camera.
Only info I found online related to either using IR filters on DSLR's or converting a DSLR, but nothing about using IR filter on film camera's.
Anyone offer any tips/leave any info/tips?

Don't want to use B&W IR film.

12-18-2015, 06:43 PM   #2
Pentaxian
bobbotron's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Ottawa, ON
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,784
What kind of film do you want to use? It really depends, some react to the IR spectrum, some don't. Your best bet is to get some IR film, or at least something like rollei retro 80s or 400s, which respond to IR.
12-18-2015, 07:05 PM   #3
Pentaxian
Digitalis's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Adelaide.
Posts: 8,535
QuoteOriginally posted by disconnekt Quote
Don't want to use B&W IR film.

Let me get this straight - you want to get the effect of IR without using IR film? the IR filter on its own won't give you the IR effect, you need a film that is sensitive to IR as well to get the look of IR. Commercial B&W films are made to be as insensitive as possible to IR/UV wavelengths. There are some films that can be used with an IR filter with a wide bandpass but the exposure times needed are very long - substantially longer than what would be needed for IR film, and images made this way don't really look the same as an actual IR image would.. And as far as I recall most of them have been discontinued.

You will need an IR filter with a wide bandpass, a Hoya R72 is a good place to start as it lets some visible red light through.


Pentax ME Super - SMCP-FA 77mm f/1.8 Limited on Ilford SFX200 with Hoya R72 filter

Last edited by Digitalis; 12-18-2015 at 09:12 PM.
12-18-2015, 07:30 PM   #4
Site Supporter
Alex645's Avatar

Join Date: May 2015
Location: Kaneohe, HI
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,140
I have shot with Ilford SFX 200 which is not a "true" IR film, but is highly sensitive to the deep red range with a Hoya R72 filter. It's easy to process and not too hard to shoot at ISO 200 although the filter is incredibly dense and will require you to use a tripod with relatively slow shutter speeds even in full sun.

Back in the day, I used to shoot Ektachrome Infrared Color slide film and got some amazing effects with a #15 deep yellow filter. But I didn't think that color infrared film was still made and sold. Infrared is also much more sensitive to heat, so even kept in cold storage would make me concerned about any hopes with expired film.

Digital IR solutions are more costly, but much easier to execute.

12-18-2015, 08:44 PM   #5
Site Supporter
gofour3's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 5,124
QuoteOriginally posted by disconnekt Quote
Anyone offer any tips/leave any info/tips?
As previously mentioned Ilford SFX is a good place to start. When shooting IR film you have to account for a focus shift, see this from the Pentax KX camera manual:

Phil.
Attached Images
 
12-18-2015, 08:46 PM   #6
Pentaxian
bobbotron's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Ottawa, ON
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,784
QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
Let me get this straight - you want to get the effect of IR without using IR film? the IR filter on its own won't give you the IR effect, you need a film that is sensitive to IR as well to get the look of IR. Commercial B&W films are made to be as insensitive as possible to IR/UV wavelengths there are some films that can be used with an IR filter with a wide bandpass but the exposure times needed are very long - substantially longer than what would be needed for IR film, and images made this way don't really look the same as an actual IR image would.. And as far as I recall most of them have been discontinued.

You will need an IR filter with a wide bandpass, a Hoya R72 is a good place to start as it lets some visible red light through.


Pentax ME Super - SMCP-FA 77mm f/1.8 Limited on Ilford SFX200 with Hoya R72 filter
I was being kind. Digitalis speaks the truth, you really need an IR sensitive film!
12-18-2015, 09:22 PM   #7
Pentaxian
Digitalis's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Adelaide.
Posts: 8,535
QuoteOriginally posted by Alex645 Quote
Ilford SFX 200 which is not a "true" IR film
Quite right, Technically what we are talking about is the NIR or Near-infared spectrum of 750-1000nm, not true infrared which is around 1500nm to 8000nm. Ilford SFX 200 is basically a panchromatic film, and can be used as such. However, compared to standard panchromatic films SFX has an abnormal amount of red sensitivity, extending far beyond common panchromatic films like T-MAX 100, Fuji Neopan 100, Ilford Pan-F and Delta 100.

Last edited by Digitalis; 12-18-2015 at 09:31 PM.
12-18-2015, 11:53 PM   #8
Veteran Member
disconnekt's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Riverside, CA
Posts: 377
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by bobbotron Quote
What kind of film do you want to use? It really depends, some react to the IR spectrum, some don't. Your best bet is to get some IR film, or at least something like rollei retro 80s or 400s, which respond to IR.
I just wanted to see if there was any other ways to do B&W IR on film besides having to get IR B&W film.
Was planning to try it on Illford Delta film, but open to trying other types of film.

I know that most places don't process IR film (or if they do, they'll charge extra), so I just wanted to try using a IR filter on B&W film first and see what happens.

12-19-2015, 12:07 AM   #9
Pentaxian
Digitalis's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Adelaide.
Posts: 8,535
QuoteOriginally posted by disconnekt Quote
I know that most places don't process IR film
You don't have to tell them it's IR if you use SFX200, and if they do charge you extra for using that film they are cheating you.Any ordinary B&W film developer such as ID-11 can be used with SFX.

QuoteOriginally posted by disconnekt Quote
I just wanted to try using a IR filter on B&W film first and see what happens.
If you do this you are going to have extremely long shutter times and as a consequence: reciprocity failure will become problematic. And even then if you use a regular panchromatic film you will not get the same effect as using an IR sensitive film which negates the purpose of the experiment really.

Last edited by Digitalis; 12-19-2015 at 12:15 AM.
12-19-2015, 12:08 AM   #10
Site Supporter
Alex645's Avatar

Join Date: May 2015
Location: Kaneohe, HI
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,140
QuoteOriginally posted by disconnekt Quote
I just wanted to see if there was any other ways to do B&W IR on film besides having to get IR B&W film.
Was planning to try it on Illford Delta film, but open to trying other types of film.

I know that most places don't process IR film (or if they do, they'll charge extra), so I just wanted to try using a IR filter on B&W film first and see what happens.
Ok...now I understand your question. Although most films are sensitive to the ultraviolet end of the visible spectrum, panchromatic black and white film emulsions have almost no sensitivity to the infrared range. The only exception that approaches that end of the spectrum is Ilford SFX 200, but to truly get the real dreamy dramatic foliage, white flesh tones, pitch black skies, only IR films achieve the best results.

The only go-around to simulate IR may be to scan a b&w negative and then manipulate the channel mixer in PS or use a preset with Nik's Silver Efex Pro.
12-19-2015, 12:16 AM   #11
Pentaxian
Digitalis's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Adelaide.
Posts: 8,535
QuoteOriginally posted by Alex645 Quote
to simulate IR may be to scan a b&w negative and then manipulate the channel mixer in PS
That won't work on a monochrome image, as the channel mixer requires there to be more than one channel of information typically in the form of a colour RGB image.
12-19-2015, 12:28 AM   #12
Site Supporter
Alex645's Avatar

Join Date: May 2015
Location: Kaneohe, HI
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,140
QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
That won't work on a monochrome image, as the channel mixer requires there to be more than one channel of information typically in the form of a colour RGB image.
True, sorry totally wouldn't work with a monochrome film. But it should work if it were a color neg...right?
12-19-2015, 11:29 AM - 1 Like   #13
Site Supporter
gofour3's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 5,124
QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
Any ordinary B&W film developer such as ID-11 can be used with SFX.
Yep, also works crossed processed as a positive by DR5 Chrome. (Denver)



Phil.
12-19-2015, 01:01 PM - 1 Like   #14
Site Supporter




Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 621
IMHO, your approach is a bit backwards. Learn IR photography with your digital camera first. That is for two reasons. First, your cost while learning will be much cheaper. Second, IR has a steeper learning curve than visible light photography.

The cost difference between digital and film is obvious. Plus it takes more image captures to learn IR, compounding the cost. If you assume $25 for film and developing, with four "good" results per roll, your cost is about $6 per "good" shot.

The technique and visualization process for IR requires more learning than visual spectrum photography. Your visualization process is harder to learn. Tones, textures, opaqueness of materials are different. This results in images with a different expression than anticipated. After thousands of image captures, I am still surprised at the results. Exposure estimation is harder. Bracketing for exposure is required. With the bracketing and visualization problems, I was happy to get four or so "good" images from a 36 exposure roll. Throw in focus shift problems, especially with lenses without an IR mark will further complicate the learning. Additionally there are lenses that are unsuitable for IR because of hot spots. When you use IR film, you will need to load it in a changing bag.

With film you will have a long lag time between exposure and self criticism. How long will you remember the details of the shot and scene before you see the results? Plus you will pay for one roll of film and its development to get four "good" images. With the R72 filter, you will need a tripod. This is a lot of work and a long time for a small number of images that cost a lot.

Learn IR with your digital camera first, then transfer your knowledge to film. With digital the cost will be cheaper, the learning feedback immediate. When you feel good with digital, having mastered the visualization and technique, then move to the more expensive and slower feedback film.

P.S. By "good", I mean exposure and having the tone and texture expected, not composition, emotion evocation, lighting, and shadows.

Last edited by lmd91343; 12-19-2015 at 01:13 PM. Reason: Mixed up film and digital in next to last sentence
12-19-2015, 07:31 PM   #15
Veteran Member
disconnekt's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Riverside, CA
Posts: 377
Original Poster
I'd rather spend $40-ish bucks on a used filter, a roll of film & developing it, than spending $200+ to convert my DSLR camera/get one that's already converted.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
b&w, black, camera, film, filter, filter on film, infra, ir, ir filter, red, white
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pentax-A 135mm f2.8 quality on film cameras Lititz Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 4 03-09-2015 05:13 PM
Tips on using flash? Zephos Photographic Technique 20 03-02-2015 08:05 AM
Tips for using an "A" lens on my K500 ripper2860 Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 16 05-29-2014 10:43 PM
Tips and tricks on using a monopod 6BQ5 Pentax Camera and Field Accessories 8 09-15-2013 08:40 AM
Using an IR filter on MF jct us101 Pentax DSLR Discussion 7 02-18-2009 02:29 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:40 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top