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02-28-2016, 11:48 AM   #1
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Pushing and Pulling

Hello!
Could you please clarify to me how to do this?
I know that pushing or pulling a film is made through the developing process, so I would like to know:
if I want to push a film ASA100 to ASA400, should I expose for 400 and develop for 100, or expose for 400 and develop for 400 or expose for 100 and dev for 400?
I'm a bit confuse, even if I think that the correct answer is both expose and develop for 400.
Thank to anyone who will explain to me!

Happy Sunday
G.

02-28-2016, 12:01 PM   #2
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to push 100 > 400 you would set your camera to 400 while using 100 film... all of your shots will then be underexposed, so you need to tell the place where you get it processed to push 2 stops....

if you develop yourself, read the directions and push.
02-28-2016, 12:09 PM   #3
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Yes sorry, I didn't stated that. I develop myself. So I have to develop it like a 400? Or there is another way?
02-28-2016, 12:37 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by gabro822 Quote
Yes sorry, I didn't stated that. I develop myself. So I have to develop it like a 400? Or there is another way?
Let's start from the beginning. What film (brand) are you shooting and what developer (brand) are you using? I'll assume BW.

Go find the data sheet for both your film and developer. Read it! Your developer's data sheet should tell you some development times for a selected number of films. Of course they favor their brand but often cover others. They may tell you push times too. Kodak and Ilford are good at that. Also think of push and pull as exposure indexes. That is, you expose a box speed film at a different ISO and hence an exposure index. Often tables list development times by that instead of saying something to the effect of push 1 stop, push 2, pull 1, pull 2, etc.

Here is a link to Ilford's Development Chart. It is a good reference. It gives development times for different exposure indexes (EI). A 100 film metered as 400 film is shooting at an EI of 400.

If your film/developer combo is unusual, you may find published push/pull times hard to get. I'd strongly recommend you start out with something that is on a published chart and when you're comfortable pushing film you can branch out on your own and experiment with less popular film/developer combinations as you'll have to do some experimenting on finding a development time for them often. But you can also search the Massive Development chart out there you can find where people have input almost everything under the sun.

02-28-2016, 12:50 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by gabro822 Quote
I'm a bit confuse, even if I think that the correct answer is both expose and develop for 400.
Yes, if you have 100 ISO but want to shoot it at 400 ISO, then expose for 400 ISO and develop for 400 ISO (technically called EI 400).

Effectively you are under-exposing the 100 ISO two stops, so developing it as a 400 will require more time and thus over developing which is called push processing. If you did the reverse (exposed 400 ISO film at 100 ISO) you'd need to under-develop it by pull processing 2 stops.
02-28-2016, 12:52 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
Let's start from the beginning. What film (brand) are you shooting and what developer (brand) are you using? I'll assume BW.

Go find the data sheet for both your film and developer. Read it! Your developer's data sheet should tell you some development times for a selected number of films. Of course they favor their brand but often cover others. They may tell you push times too. Kodak and Ilford are good at that. Also think of push and pull as exposure indexes. That is, you expose a box speed film at a different ISO and hence an exposure index. Often tables list development times by that instead of saying something to the effect of push 1 stop, push 2, pull 1, pull 2, etc.

Here is a link to Ilford's Development Chart. It is a good reference. It gives development times for different exposure indexes (EI). A 100 film metered as 400 film is shooting at an EI of 400.

If your film/developer combo is unusual, you may find published push/pull times hard to get. I'd strongly recommend you start out with something that is on a published chart and when you're comfortable pushing film you can branch out on your own and experiment with less popular film/developer combinations as you'll have to do some experimenting on finding a development time for them often. But you can also search the Massive Development chart out there you can find where people have input almost everything under the sun.
Thank you very much for this explanation!
Yes, I was referring to BW film, but my curiosity was general, not referred to a particular film (also because I thought it was all the same -> wrong!).
Ok, now I have fully understand!
Thank you!

---------- Post added 02-28-16 at 08:54 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Alex645 Quote
Yes, if you have 100 ISO but want to shoot it at 400 ISO, then expose for 400 ISO and develop for 400 ISO (technically called EI 400).

Effectively you are under-exposing the 100 ISO two stops, so developing it as a 400 will require more time and thus over developing which is called push processing. If you did the reverse (exposed 400 ISO film at 100 ISO) you'd need to under-develop it by pull processing 2 stops.
Thank you very much!
02-28-2016, 01:52 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by gabro822 Quote
Thank you very much for this explanation!
Yes, I was referring to BW film, but my curiosity was general, not referred to a particular film (also because I thought it was all the same -> wrong!).
Ok, now I have fully understand!
Okay. Color negative film it pretty much doesn't matter what ISO or brand you're using. The development time can be the same. Of course you can push the development time with color too but it's more common thing to do in BW film.
02-28-2016, 02:27 PM   #8
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Also note that in general, the higher ISO, the greater the exposure latitude (emulsion is more forgiving for over and under exposure).

Monochromatic chromogenic films (like Ilford XP2+ developed in C-41) also has a huge exposure latitude and although 400 ISO is suggested, produces more than acceptable results from 100-1600 ISO without push or pull processing.

If you ever shoot chrome (E-6 color slide film), custom labs will often run a "snip test" for a small price. You waste a few of your first shots and the lab will snip/cut off the first exposures and will push or pull process that test as you request. Based on the results, you can then instruct the color lab to do another snip test or how much push or pull processing you want for the rest of the roll.

For traditional B&W film, Tuco's advice is spot on.

02-28-2016, 03:39 PM   #9
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Alex645 has mentioned that your 100 ISO film pushed to 400 would technically be called EI 400.
Just on a pedantic note, ISO is determined for a film when developed to a particular contrast. After pushing it will have a higher contrast. So you can shoot a film faster but you can't change its ISO rating. On the pushing charts in Ilford boxes only EI is used.
02-28-2016, 04:33 PM   #10
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Although it is possible to get acceptable results pushing film, why would anyone want to do so unless they had to? Yeah, film is expensive. Regardless, there is a loss in image quality of some sort every time someone goes to the extremes of the density log exposure curve (the characteristic curve) of the film. If you have to do it the above advice is great. However, it is better to just carry more film with different ISOs.
02-28-2016, 07:26 PM - 1 Like   #11
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I like to push Tri-x 2 stops all the time just because I like the grainy contrasty look :-)
02-29-2016, 03:32 AM   #12
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There are four great lies.

I can only recall two.

III) I'll love you tomorrow.
IV) pushing or pulling works

You can only adjust contrast by development, maybe you can try and extract a photo from a pushed negative that is underexposed. But way difficult to wet print whatever Kodak or Ilford or Foma or...

It is not worth even experimenting.

XP2+ is ok 50-800 in a normal mini lab drop off if you print your own and adjust the print tools.
02-29-2016, 04:04 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Xmas Quote
IV) pushing or pulling works
Take a look at Delta 3200 Data Sheet. What is the working ISO of that film? You can develop it at several different exposure indexes from 3200 down to 400 and it only get finer grain and better tonal scale the lower you go.

And that is pretty common among tabular grain films. I can shoot 400TMY at EI200, EI100 and EI50 and get more DR and finer grain than box speed all with excellent tonal scale. Perhaps you have not experienced that and still are thinking in the cubic grain film days.
02-29-2016, 05:56 AM   #14
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Thank you for all the precious informations you gave me!!

QuoteOriginally posted by Alex645 Quote
Monochromatic chromogenic films (like Ilford XP2+ developed in C-41) also has a huge exposure latitude and although 400 ISO is suggested, produces more than acceptable results from 100-1600 ISO without push or pull processing.
In this case you expose a 400 ISO film at 100-1600 ISO and then develop it like a 400 ISO, right?
02-29-2016, 09:24 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by gabro822 Quote

In this case you expose a 400 ISO film at 100-1600 ISO and then develop it like a 400 ISO, right?
Chromogenic BW films are developed with the C-41 color negative process. That process has one development time for all speeds and brands made for C-41. So, no, you normally do not have a custom develop development time when you shoot XP2 at, say, EI800 or EI1600. But you could add a little more development time if you wanted when you do it yourself on those exposure indexes.
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