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06-11-2016, 05:17 PM   #61
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After all of that, I stumbled across a nice little rose in my front yard and grabbed a couple quick pics from my K-30 and HD DA20-40Ltd. A rare, for me, straight out of the camera jpeg. Or rather, a straight LR6 conversion to jpeg from the DNG file since I only shoot in RAW now.




06-11-2016, 05:53 PM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by gbeaton Quote
For example, "Sunny 16" says Bright, sunny day at f/16, shutter speed is 1/ISO. Extrapolated, f/22 at the beach, f/11 on cloudy-bright days. So modify by a stop for each noticeable level of shade.
I wish someone would take clear pictures which illustrate what I've seen described as the shadow method: IIRC it's sharp shadows f/16, hazy edges f/11, barely there f/8, no shadows f/5.6, shade f/4, and generally I get what they mean, but some images would help.

---------- Post added 11-06-16 at 22:27 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
I usually wrote the number of exposed frames on their with the following nomenclature "#+" this told me to put it back in and go to that number and then add a blank after that just in case to avoid multiple exposures
I tried this once and put in about three blanks. Two more than I needed because things lined up perfectly but it was the first time and I was playing safe, not to mention that I was also shifting the film over to another camera!!!
06-13-2016, 02:03 AM   #63
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I had printing problems after doing the same as the printers didn't notice the jump in spacing until I pointed it out. Thankfully they'd used their eyes when cutting the negs into strips! It was Asda (Walmart UK) so not exactly professionals.

Know what you menaa bout guidance, f16 rule is just a rule of thumb so really needs to combine with some experience, and for me that means using a light meter in parallel until I get it (which I haven't yet). There is a bit more info here:
negative exposure
near the (very!) bottom, a heading for sunny 16 and exposing for lowlights. I guess "bright" could mean a lot of different things, where my dad's flat is in Madrid the morning sun is enough to sear my eyeballs.
06-13-2016, 07:06 AM - 1 Like   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by Xmas Quote
Nice of you to say I'll say with my print frames and enlargers while I can get silver paper.

IMO the average darkroom wet print is closer to the truth than a photoshopped digital file.

There's only so much darkroom sleight-of-hand even an experienced printer can do during a ten-second exposure.

Chris

06-13-2016, 08:38 AM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChrisPlatt Quote
IMO the average darkroom wet print is closer to the truth than a photoshopped digital file.

There's only so much darkroom sleight-of-hand even an experienced printer can do during a ten-second exposure.

Chris
Hi Chris

Yes printing was way difficult, unless it was a straight print.
You (attempted to) developed for a contrast for grade 2 paper...
But you stopped down the enlarger lens to get the exposure to a sufficient time for the hand sleight of hand.
The negative needed to be dense enough for the shadow graduation you wanted.
You might a needed a template (mask) for the sky and a reciprocal template for the land.
A metronome and tape recorder for the burning and dodging.
'Spotting' each dust spot took aeons.
Repeat prints the same again...
But there was not a DMax problem...

Noel
06-15-2016, 04:19 PM   #66
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Printing is probably my favorite part of the photographic process.
It is a challenge, but you can get nice results from a good negative without too much effort.
But I'm not that fussy; I don't expect all my prints to turn out exhibition quality.
I'm happy if I can make a few nice 5x7 prints from any roll I shoot.
IMO today's RC papers are excellent and almost make it too easy.

Chris
06-16-2016, 07:20 AM   #67
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What does RC mean in this context?
06-16-2016, 07:46 AM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
What does RC mean in this context?
silver bromide in gelatine on a plastic base rather than on a paper base
You can still get paper base.

RC resin coated

06-24-2016, 11:23 AM - 2 Likes   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
I wish someone would take clear pictures which illustrate what I've seen described as the shadow method: IIRC it's sharp shadows f/16, hazy edges f/11, barely there f/8, no shadows f/5.6, shade f/4, and generally I get what they mean, but some images would help.
Something that people sometimes forget about the "Sunny 16 Rule" is that it also requires latitude ( Sun going through more/less atmosphere), season (weaker winter light vs strong summer) and time of day adjustments too. If you live at the higher latitudes, you'd most likely be better served with the "Sunny 11 Rule".

Most here do not use the zone system of metering with a one-degree spot meter. But if you did and knew where you normally place your shadows, you can then compare that to the Sunny 16 Rule. I did and found out that it typically places my shadows too low for me at my geographic location most of the time. Outdoor shadows I normally place them 2 to 3 stops below my middle gray exposure depending on the surface. The Sunny 16 Rule typically places them 3 to 4 stops below the middle gray.

And scanning in lieu of wet printing can also affect the Sunny 16 Rule too, IMHO. That is, commodity scanners don't reach into the blacks as well as they could. You can compensate to some degree by increasing the exposure at the expense of pushing some of your top highlights off if it's a high contrast scene exceeding the DR of the film with average developing. But if you roll your own you can compensate for that too. I'm and avid Sunny 11 Rule shooter and have lots of examples.

Here are some examples. I didn't record the exposures but will try to "reverse engineer" them based on my rules. NOTE: that some of these exposure could really push your high values out of reach with normal developing but I'm compressing them to get them back with an over exposure ( hence EI100) and under developing.

400TMY @ EI100 plus yellow filter and Sunny 11 for my latitude
Starting point: f11 @ 1/125th = f16 @ 1/60 (my minimum handhold exposure)
Filter adjustment: f11 @ 1/60
Late fall add a stop of exposure but for reflective water subtract it back out = no change at f11 @1/60
Early morning Sun add a stop = f8 @ 1/60





400TMY @ EI100, Yellow filter, Summer Sun near horizon

Starting: f11 @ 1/125 = f16 @ 1/60
Filter: f11 @ 1/60
Sun on horizon + 2 stops = f5.6 @ 1/60




And again 400TMY @ EI100, Yellow filter.
Same as airplane above f5.6 @ 1/60




400TMY @ EI100, Yellow Filter, Summer Solstice
Starting + filter adjustment: f11 @ 1/60
Haze + 1 stop = f8 @ 1/60
I had the camera on a monopod laying almost horizontal resting on my foot using a waist level finder on my Pentax 67 so I was able to get f11 @ 1/30


Last edited by tuco; 06-24-2016 at 01:36 PM. Reason: Add Examples
06-24-2016, 01:09 PM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
Something that people sometimes forget about the "Sunny 16 Rule" is that it also requires latitude ( Sun going through more/less atmosphere), season (weaker winter light vs strong summer) and time of day adjustments too. If you live at the higher latitudes, you'd most likely be better served with the "Sunny 11 Rule".

Most here do not use the zone system of metering with a one-degree spot meter. But if you did and knew where you normally place your shadows, you can then compare that to the Sunny 16 Rule. I did and found out that it typically places my shadows too low for me at my geographic location most of the time. Outdoor shadows I normally place them 2 to 3 stops below my middle gray exposure depending on the surface. The Sunny 16 Rule typically places them 3 to 4 stops below the middle gray.

And scanning in lieu of wet printing can also affect the Sunny 16 Rule too, IMHO. That is, commodity scanners don't reach into the blacks as well as they could. You can compensate to some degree by increasing the exposure at the expense of pushing some of your top highlights off if it's a high contrast scene exceeding the DR of the film with average developing. But if you roll your own you can compensate for that too. I'm and avid Sunny 11 Rule shooter and have lots of examples.
Film used to have the /16 rules on or inside the box, as a set of pictures... Not everyone had a photoelectric meter.
Way back then HP3 and Trix was 200 ISO to allow more latitude.
If you were(are) wet printing you need shadows with silver and DMax was(is) not a problem.
If the day is contrasty I will use a meter, otherwise /16.
06-24-2016, 01:20 PM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by Xmas Quote
Film used to have the /16 rules on or inside the box, as a set of pictures... Not everyone had a photoelectric meter.
Way back then HP3 and Trix was 200 ISO to allow more latitude.
If you were(are) wet printing you need shadows with silver and DMax was(is) not a problem.
If the day is contrasty I will use a meter, otherwise /16.
Yes, my Rolleicord had that rule on a placard attached to the back of the camera too but it was the Sunny 11 rule and it had seasonal adjustments.
06-25-2016, 08:38 PM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
Here are some examples. I didn't record the exposures but will try to "reverse engineer" them based on my rules. NOTE: that some of these exposure could really push your high values out of reach with normal developing but I'm compressing them to get them back with an over exposure ( hence EI100) and under developing.
Thanks for the detail, and gorgeous photos by the way.

Just to clarify, where these exposed for 100iso and developed at box speed, or developed as 100iso as well?
06-26-2016, 04:39 AM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
Something that people sometimes forget about the "Sunny 16 Rule" is that it also requires latitude ( Sun going through more/less atmosphere), season (weaker winter light vs strong summer) and time of day adjustments too. If you live at the higher latitudes, you'd most likely be better served with the "Sunny 11 Rule".
I am currently going with Sunny Sixteen and various sub-rules and adaptations developed to adjust for less than perfect conditions - this seems to work pretty well for me (some of the shots in the album this pic leads to were aided and abetted by a phone-app light meter, but this one was shot without - this one was Gold 400, C41 developed and scanned by the photo lab, and I asked them not to try to make exposure corrections).



QuoteQuote:
Most here do not use the zone system of metering with a one-degree spot meter. But if you did and knew where you normally place your shadows, you can then compare that to the Sunny 16 Rule. I did and found out that it typically places my shadows too low for me at my geographic location most of the time. Outdoor shadows I normally place them 2 to 3 stops below my middle gray exposure depending on the surface. The Sunny 16 Rule typically places them 3 to 4 stops below the middle gray.
My experience with digital is that it takes between 2.5 and 3 stops of the appropriate compensation to push dominant black subjects all the way to black and likewise for white; I haven't tried with film yet.

QuoteQuote:
And scanning in lieu of wet printing can also affect the Sunny 16 Rule too, IMHO. That is, commodity scanners don't reach into the blacks as well as they could. You can compensate to some degree by increasing the exposure at the expense of pushing some of your top highlights off if it's a high contrast scene exceeding the DR of the film with average developing. But if you roll your own you can compensate for that too. I'm and avid Sunny 11 Rule shooter and have lots of examples.
I scan by using my DSLR with a macro lens and slide copier rig, and a flash on a PC sync cable with the power level set appropriately. This has at the very least standardised my workflow and given some consistency to how the pics are exposed; I've eliminated the digital camera's attempts to compensate for mis-exposed negatives, and I can start actually learning something about the shots I've taken. My actual development times are lifted strictly from the Massive Development Chart online, at least until I feel like I'm sufficiently experienced to start tinkering at the edges. A couple more rolls ought to do it.
06-26-2016, 05:17 AM - 1 Like   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
What does RC mean in this context?

RC or resin coated paper rinses quickly and air dries perfectly flat, unlike fiber base papers.

For speed, convenience and economy IMO it is vastly superior for everyday printing.
RC paper is so good now some even use it for exhibition prints.


QuoteOriginally posted by Xmas Quote
Way back then HP3 and Trix was 200 ISO to allow more latitude.

I always shoot 400 speed BW film - Tri-X, HP5+ etc - at EI200 today, even when using a meter.


QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
My actual development times are lifted strictly from the Massive Development Chart online, at least until I feel like I'm sufficiently experienced to start tinkering at the edges. A couple more rolls ought to do it.

You must be a very fast learner! Forty years and I'm still learning - often the hard way...

Chris
06-26-2016, 06:35 AM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChrisPlatt Quote
You must be a very fast learner! Forty years and I'm still learning - often the hard way...
All I'm saying is that I've got to the point where actually going through the process and getting decent-quality negative images is a given. I know all too well that the learning process never really ends.
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