Jumping in Head 1st.. Bellows & Slider Copier

glee46 · 06-05-2016, 05:51 PM

I decided to go with DSLR using both my full frame or cropped camera and this:

Asahi Pentax M42 Auto Bellows & a Asahi Pentax Slide Copier

I want to use my Pentax 100mm 2.8 but in the manual it says 50mm or 55mm Macro.

1. Does anyone know if I'll be able to use my 100mm?

2. I also have some extension tubes, flashes & several M42 adapters. Not sure if I need anything else. If anyone who has this setup & you have any tips, please throw them my way.

I''m following Dave Hancock video that I watch here:

You Tube

If anyone knows of some articles or videos which I could learn from, please pass the info on to me as well.

Thanks

**BigDave** · 06-05-2016, 06:44 PM

I have been using my DSLR with a bellows quite nicely. Macro lenses are better as they are designed for up-close work, but I have used an M42 50, M42 105, M 42 135 and a Tamron 50-150 zoom all quite nicely! When first working with my K-7 I had no issues. With my K-1 I am getting some serious tunnel vision with the standard lenses starting about half way to full extension. I have not tried using my K macros yet, but I have a sneaky suspicion that the macros may have a greater field of coverage than the standard primes, so be aware of this and we shall see.

I have preferred the legacy glass because they can be manually stopped down at the lens. You are already working at a snail's pace setting everything up anyway, so an extra second or two to stop down the lens is no issue and helps to eliminate some of the camera shake. Great stuff though when you get it all done!

Regards,
BD

stevebrot · 06-05-2016, 07:34 PM

You may want to confirm that the bottom of your FF dSLR clears the bellows rail and rear standard support. Particularly with shorter focal lengths (say 50mm), the working distance can be very tight such that much of the rail is behind the camera.

You can probably use your 100mm, though not with the slide copier (total extension would be more than the rail supports). For regular macro work there should be no problem. After all, the intended lens for the M42 bellows was the Bellows Takumar 100/4 (no focus helicoid!).

Steve

glee46 · 06-05-2016, 07:46 PM

Originally posted by BigDave

I have been using my DSLR with a bellows quite nicely. Macro lenses are better as they are designed for up-close work, but I have used an M42 50, M42 105, M 42 135 and a Tamron 50-150 zoom all quite nicely! When first working with my K-7 I had no issues. With my K-1 I am getting some serious tunnel vision with the standard lenses starting about half way to full extension. I have not tried using my K macros yet, but I have a sneaky suspicion that the macros may have a greater field of coverage than the standard primes, so be aware of this and we shall see.

I have preferred the legacy glass because they can be manually stopped down at the lens. You are already working at a snail's pace setting everything up anyway, so an extra second or two to stop down the lens is no issue and helps to eliminate some of the camera shake. Great stuff though when you get it all done!

Regards,
BD

I have several M42 lens, including a SMC Tak 35mm f/3.5 - Vicitar 50mm 1.8 - SMC Tak 55mm f/2 - Super Tak 135mm f/2.5 & even a Super Tak 200 f/4. If the K-1 is unable to produce the images correctly, I'll use either my K-3ll or K-5.

Thanks BD for info. It will be nice checking how this might work with the K-1.

Arjay Bee · 06-06-2016, 02:15 AM - **1 Like**

A word of caution here.

On the K10 through K3 models the horn of the on board flash unit projects out over the front of the lens mount.
If you use the bellows with a K mount adapter directly on the camera mount it will go on very easily but will not unscrew off as easily as the bellow will bind on the horn.
I use a macro tube to provide enough space to bring the rear mount of the bellows out from under the flash unit.
Illustration below gives side on view with K20.

Snoot is made with black electrical tape and Pringle tubes. While the snoot is short for this set up usually the bellows are not on full extension.
The 4 way macro slider is a cheap ebay model and the lens is a S-M-C Macro Takumar 100mm

This rig did this image with a tissue diffuser pushed into the snoot:

**WPRESTO** · 06-06-2016, 03:45 AM

If you are planning to convert old chromes/slides to digital with the bellows, you will have problems. 1) You cannot use the 100mm f4 bellows lens, the focal distance is too long (the slide holder cannot position the slide far enough away to achieve focus); 2) if you have a ~50mm lens, you will be able to copy about the central 2/3 of a chrome or slide because the bellows & slide copy attachment is designed to position slide + 50mm lens at 1:1 using FF film. An APS-C sensor is too small. I have two Pentax bellows and the slide copy attachment and have attempted to copy a slide using 35mm, 40mm, 45mm (enlarging lens), 50mm, 70mm, and 100mm (bellows) lenses mounted on the bellows. No go. No way to get 1:1 of a slide with an APS-C sensor camera using a Pentax bellows & slide-copy attachment. So, if you want to CROP the slide a considerable amount, it can be done, but you can only crop the central area (the slide copy attachment allows up-down shifting of a slide, but not left-right). If you want to copy the entire slide (1:1 copy) there are two options: 1) a K1 body; 2) do not use the slide copy attachment, use some kind of light box + copy stand arrangement. I now have a K1 and will eventually experiment converting slides with the camera. I'm not sure if the IQ will be as good as commercial conversion, and certainly a LOT more work than sending 1,000 chromes off to Scan Cafe.

**BigDave** · 06-06-2016, 06:50 AM

Originally posted by stevebrot

You may want to confirm that the bottom of your FF dSLR clears the bellows rail and rear standard support. Particularly with shorter focal lengths (say 50mm), the working distance can be very tight such that much of the rail is behind the camera.

Stevebrot brings up a good point and ArjayBee's solution is the way to go. I am using the A bellows which did not allow mating with my K-7 or K-1 until I added a short extension tube to the back of the bellows system. Then it was full speed ahead! The extension tube added a little length to the overall set-up, but we ARE talking a bellows here! It really didn't matter!

Regards,
BD

stevebrot · 06-06-2016, 09:08 AM

Originally posted by Arjay Bee

If you use the bellows with a K mount adapter directly on the camera mount it will go on very easily but will not unscrew off as easily as the bellow will bind on the horn.

With most (all?) Pentax-brand bellows the male (lens) portion of the mount secures to the rear standard with a set screw. The mount may be attached to the camera first and the assembly set into the rear standard rather than have to attach it the normal way.

The below photo of the Pentax Auto Bellows M42 (from this site) shows the rear mount with set screw and also shows the point of interference at the rear standard support. I believe the short extension tube "fix" is known to work with the APS-C bodies, though I cannot say with the K-1.

Steve

glee46 · 06-06-2016, 10:04 AM

Edit: I just realized that I have this in the wrong forum. I didn't see the Film Processing, Scanning, and Darkroom forum. If possible, can the Moderator move this to the right forum? My apologies.

I'll have the bellows & Slide copier either at the end of this week, or early part of the week after. (June 13, 2016) The picture of the billows and copier is what I'm getting, but it's the M42.

My main goal is to get the best resolution off the negatives & into the computer & having fun in the process. I jumped in and committed myself to trying all means to make this process to work. I have all Pentax gear, K-20D to FF K-1 and just about every camera between the two. I have a number of M42 lens, adapters and due to my GAS (gear acquisition syndrome) I'm willing to buy more to a certain degree.

I went with this setup because it's more hands on, looked fun, and it's old. At the most, I don't think I'll be shooting more than a few rolls a month. Of course, that could change if I don't stop looking a pictures in the Film Medium Format Forum.

I really appreciate all the help with each of you in this thread and a few others I started. Maybe I'll find the time to see if I (Along with experienced Film buffs) can contribute more by putting together a Sticky briefly outlining the different setups, costs, results and time required for this almost lost art.

Not a Number · 06-06-2016, 05:57 PM

If you have the auto bellows you can screw a regular release cable (mechanical) into the socket on the bellows. If you have auto screw mount lenses you can stop down the lens with the cable release. You can also push in the DOF preview button on the bellows (the cable screws into this). I don't recall if the M42 button locks as it does on the K-mount versions. The advantage of using a cable release is that you lessen the chance of jarring the bellows.

The slide copier is designed for use with 58-50mm lenses. With a full-frame sensor you should be able to capture the entire frame. As noted above crop sensor bodies can't cover the entire frame without adding more distance between the lens and the slide copier.

Eyewanders · 06-06-2016, 06:09 PM

Since you're also into "having fun", trying different setup with the bellows and tubes and slide may well be what the doctor ordered...

But if you'd just like to get down to business, I can heartily recommend either the FA 50mm 2.8 Macro, or the FA100mm 2.8 Macro. Both are close-focus, 1:1 macro, sharp-as-tacks and can be found *really* reasonably on the 'Bay.

I have and purchased the 50 for scanning specifically and it works really well. I'd be using it full-time but the intent was to setup and dial it in on a small copy table, but I just don't have the space to dedicate to it at the moment so I've been carrying on with the flatbed. I don't want to have to setup, dial-in and disassemble when finished every time, so for the moment I just have an amazing macro lens until we move later this year (hopefully). My two cents.

glee46 · 06-06-2016, 06:50 PM

This is what I have coming next week: Its a Asahi Pentax M42 Auto Bellows II & Pentax Slide copier.

It doesn't look like it has a place for a cable release on it. However, I have both the wireless and a wired remote control for the camera's.

**WPRESTO** · 06-06-2016, 07:40 PM

That's the earlier/older version of the bellows, easily recognized by the double track rather than a single X-section bar, also no focusing rack & pinion carrier where the tripod mounts. Had one like that pictured for my Spotmatic. Still have the camera, but the bellows is long gone.

glee46 · 06-06-2016, 08:58 PM

Originally posted by WPRESTO

That's the earlier/older version of the bellows, easily recognized by the double track rather than a single X-section bar, also no focusing rack & pinion carrier where the tripod mounts. Had one like that pictured for my Spotmatic. Still have the camera, but the bellows is long gone.

What do think? Will I be able to get this rig setup and scan negatives with one of my Crop or Full Frame cameras?

I should add I purchased them from a seller here on PF. I didn't see a picture ( The ones I got are from an ebay seller, but the description says that they look like they never have been used.

glee46 · 06-06-2016, 10:57 PM

I made another mistake on my post #12. It's the Asahi Pentax M42 Auto Bellows + the Pentax Slide Copier that I'm getting & not the Asahi Pentax M42 Auto Bellows II. I'm not sure if I'm better off with this or the II. Anyone have any though on the difference between the 2. The one I'm getting from pictures is that it does not have the screw that might get in the way if I use my K-1.

I hope I get all my mistakes done here and make less once I get it.

06-06-2016, 09:08 AM	#8
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Arjay Bee If you use the bellows with a K mount adapter directly on the camera mount it will go on very easily but will not unscrew off as easily as the bellow will bind on the horn. With most (all?) Pentax-brand bellows the male (lens) portion of the mount secures to the rear standard with a set screw. The mount may be attached to the camera first and the assembly set into the rear standard rather than have to attach it the normal way. The below photo of the Pentax Auto Bellows M42 (from this site) shows the rear mount with set screw and also shows the point of interference at the rear standard support. I believe the short extension tube "fix" is known to work with the APS-C bodies, though I cannot say with the K-1. Steve Last edited by stevebrot; 06-06-2016 at 09:14 AM.

06-06-2016, 10:04 AM	#9
glee46 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: North of San Francisco, California Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 598 Original Poster	Edit: I just realized that I have this in the wrong forum. I didn't see the Film Processing, Scanning, and Darkroom forum. If possible, can the Moderator move this to the right forum? My apologies. I'll have the bellows & Slide copier either at the end of this week, or early part of the week after. (June 13, 2016) The picture of the billows and copier is what I'm getting, but it's the M42. My main goal is to get the best resolution off the negatives & into the computer & having fun in the process. I jumped in and committed myself to trying all means to make this process to work. I have all Pentax gear, K-20D to FF K-1 and just about every camera between the two. I have a number of M42 lens, adapters and due to my GAS (gear acquisition syndrome) I'm willing to buy more to a certain degree. I went with this setup because it's more hands on, looked fun, and it's old. At the most, I don't think I'll be shooting more than a few rolls a month. Of course, that could change if I don't stop looking a pictures in the Film Medium Format Forum. I really appreciate all the help with each of you in this thread and a few others I started. Maybe I'll find the time to see if I (Along with experienced Film buffs) can contribute more by putting together a Sticky briefly outlining the different setups, costs, results and time required for this almost lost art. Last edited by glee46; 06-06-2016 at 10:13 AM. Reason: I have this in the wrong forum.

06-06-2016, 07:40 PM	#13
WPRESTO Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Massachusetts Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 59,105	That's the earlier/older version of the bellows, easily recognized by the double track rather than a single X-section bar, also no focusing rack & pinion carrier where the tripod mounts. Had one like that pictured for my Spotmatic. Still have the camera, but the bellows is long gone. Last edited by WPRESTO; 06-07-2016 at 03:37 AM.

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06-05-2016, 06:44 PM	#2
BigDave Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Hudson Valley, NY Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,626	I have been using my DSLR with a bellows quite nicely. Macro lenses are better as they are designed for up-close work, but I have used an M42 50, M42 105, M 42 135 and a Tamron 50-150 zoom all quite nicely! When first working with my K-7 I had no issues. With my K-1 I am getting some serious tunnel vision with the standard lenses starting about half way to full extension. I have not tried using my K macros yet, but I have a sneaky suspicion that the macros may have a greater field of coverage than the standard primes, so be aware of this and we shall see. I have preferred the legacy glass because they can be manually stopped down at the lens. You are already working at a snail's pace setting everything up anyway, so an extra second or two to stop down the lens is no issue and helps to eliminate some of the camera shake. Great stuff though when you get it all done! Regards, BD

06-05-2016, 07:34 PM	#3
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	You may want to confirm that the bottom of your FF dSLR clears the bellows rail and rear standard support. Particularly with shorter focal lengths (say 50mm), the working distance can be very tight such that much of the rail is behind the camera. You can probably use your 100mm, though not with the slide copier (total extension would be more than the rail supports). For regular macro work there should be no problem. After all, the intended lens for the M42 bellows was the Bellows Takumar 100/4 (no focus helicoid!). Steve

06-05-2016, 07:46 PM	#4
glee46 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: North of San Francisco, California Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 598 Original Poster	Originally posted by BigDave I have been using my DSLR with a bellows quite nicely. Macro lenses are better as they are designed for up-close work, but I have used an M42 50, M42 105, M 42 135 and a Tamron 50-150 zoom all quite nicely! When first working with my K-7 I had no issues. With my K-1 I am getting some serious tunnel vision with the standard lenses starting about half way to full extension. I have not tried using my K macros yet, but I have a sneaky suspicion that the macros may have a greater field of coverage than the standard primes, so be aware of this and we shall see. I have preferred the legacy glass because they can be manually stopped down at the lens. You are already working at a snail's pace setting everything up anyway, so an extra second or two to stop down the lens is no issue and helps to eliminate some of the camera shake. Great stuff though when you get it all done! Regards, BD I have several M42 lens, including a SMC Tak 35mm f/3.5 - Vicitar 50mm 1.8 - SMC Tak 55mm f/2 - Super Tak 135mm f/2.5 & even a Super Tak 200 f/4. If the K-1 is unable to produce the images correctly, I'll use either my K-3ll or K-5. Thanks BD for info. It will be nice checking how this might work with the K-1.

06-06-2016, 02:15 AM - 1 Like	#5
Arjay Bee Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Horn Island, Torres Straits, Q Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,715	A word of caution here. On the K10 through K3 models the horn of the on board flash unit projects out over the front of the lens mount. If you use the bellows with a K mount adapter directly on the camera mount it will go on very easily but will not unscrew off as easily as the bellow will bind on the horn. I use a macro tube to provide enough space to bring the rear mount of the bellows out from under the flash unit. Illustration below gives side on view with K20. Snoot is made with black electrical tape and Pringle tubes. While the snoot is short for this set up usually the bellows are not on full extension. The 4 way macro slider is a cheap ebay model and the lens is a S-M-C Macro Takumar 100mm This rig did this image with a tissue diffuser pushed into the snoot:

06-06-2016, 03:45 AM	#6
WPRESTO Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Massachusetts Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 59,105	If you are planning to convert old chromes/slides to digital with the bellows, you will have problems. 1) You cannot use the 100mm f4 bellows lens, the focal distance is too long (the slide holder cannot position the slide far enough away to achieve focus); 2) if you have a ~50mm lens, you will be able to copy about the central 2/3 of a chrome or slide because the bellows & slide copy attachment is designed to position slide + 50mm lens at 1:1 using FF film. An APS-C sensor is too small. I have two Pentax bellows and the slide copy attachment and have attempted to copy a slide using 35mm, 40mm, 45mm (enlarging lens), 50mm, 70mm, and 100mm (bellows) lenses mounted on the bellows. No go. No way to get 1:1 of a slide with an APS-C sensor camera using a Pentax bellows & slide-copy attachment. So, if you want to CROP the slide a considerable amount, it can be done, but you can only crop the central area (the slide copy attachment allows up-down shifting of a slide, but not left-right). If you want to copy the entire slide (1:1 copy) there are two options: 1) a K1 body; 2) do not use the slide copy attachment, use some kind of light box + copy stand arrangement. I now have a K1 and will eventually experiment converting slides with the camera. I'm not sure if the IQ will be as good as commercial conversion, and certainly a LOT more work than sending 1,000 chromes off to Scan Cafe.

06-06-2016, 06:50 AM	#7
BigDave Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Hudson Valley, NY Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,626	Originally posted by stevebrot You may want to confirm that the bottom of your FF dSLR clears the bellows rail and rear standard support. Particularly with shorter focal lengths (say 50mm), the working distance can be very tight such that much of the rail is behind the camera. Stevebrot brings up a good point and ArjayBee's solution is the way to go. I am using the A bellows which did not allow mating with my K-7 or K-1 until I added a short extension tube to the back of the bellows system. Then it was full speed ahead! The extension tube added a little length to the overall set-up, but we ARE talking a bellows here! It really didn't matter! Regards, BD

06-06-2016, 05:57 PM	#10
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	If you have the auto bellows you can screw a regular release cable (mechanical) into the socket on the bellows. If you have auto screw mount lenses you can stop down the lens with the cable release. You can also push in the DOF preview button on the bellows (the cable screws into this). I don't recall if the M42 button locks as it does on the K-mount versions. The advantage of using a cable release is that you lessen the chance of jarring the bellows. The slide copier is designed for use with 58-50mm lenses. With a full-frame sensor you should be able to capture the entire frame. As noted above crop sensor bodies can't cover the entire frame without adding more distance between the lens and the slide copier.

06-06-2016, 06:09 PM	#11
Eyewanders Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Land of the Salish Sea Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,343	Since you're also into "having fun", trying different setup with the bellows and tubes and slide may well be what the doctor ordered... But if you'd just like to get down to business, I can heartily recommend either the FA 50mm 2.8 Macro, or the FA100mm 2.8 Macro. Both are close-focus, 1:1 macro, sharp-as-tacks and can be found really reasonably on the 'Bay. I have and purchased the 50 for scanning specifically and it works really well. I'd be using it full-time but the intent was to setup and dial it in on a small copy table, but I just don't have the space to dedicate to it at the moment so I've been carrying on with the flatbed. I don't want to have to setup, dial-in and disassemble when finished every time, so for the moment I just have an amazing macro lens until we move later this year (hopefully). My two cents.

06-06-2016, 06:50 PM	#12
glee46 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: North of San Francisco, California Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 598 Original Poster	This is what I have coming next week: Its a Asahi Pentax M42 Auto Bellows II & Pentax Slide copier. It doesn't look like it has a place for a cable release on it. However, I have both the wireless and a wired remote control for the camera's.

06-06-2016, 08:58 PM	#14
glee46 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: North of San Francisco, California Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 598 Original Poster	Originally posted by WPRESTO That's the earlier/older version of the bellows, easily recognized by the double track rather than a single X-section bar, also no focusing rack & pinion carrier where the tripod mounts. Had one like that pictured for my Spotmatic. Still have the camera, but the bellows is long gone. What do think? Will I be able to get this rig setup and scan negatives with one of my Crop or Full Frame cameras? I should add I purchased them from a seller here on PF. I didn't see a picture ( The ones I got are from an ebay seller, but the description says that they look like they never have been used.

06-06-2016, 10:57 PM	#15
glee46 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: North of San Francisco, California Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 598 Original Poster	I made another mistake on my post #12. It's the Asahi Pentax M42 Auto Bellows + the Pentax Slide Copier that I'm getting & not the Asahi Pentax M42 Auto Bellows II. I'm not sure if I'm better off with this or the II. Anyone have any though on the difference between the 2. The one I'm getting from pictures is that it does not have the screw that might get in the way if I use my K-1. I hope I get all my mistakes done here and make less once I get it.