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08-03-2008, 02:33 AM   #1
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Can I get Caffenol at Starbucks?

While reading the "gimme-some-grain" thread, Nesster made a reference to the Frugal Photographer, and developing film with coffee.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-film-slr-discussion/33367-gimme-some-grain-2.html

what? Coffee?

So after a little time on google, it turns out you CAN develope film with coffee.

This rapidly became a "I gotta try this!!"

I'd been pondering developing my own film for a while now. This was the push I needed, and tonight I did it. I developed a roll in coffee!

Here is the recipe I used: Caffenol Film Developer Formula

I used the Caffenol C mix. I used water for a stop bath, Kodak hard fixer and PhotoFlo.

I didn't think to photo-document the process. As it was my first time developing film I had enough to think about. Next time I'll take some shots.

Tomorrow I'll get the negatives scanned and post them. I gotta get a scanner!

So far the negatives look, well, like negatives. Using my 50mm as a loop, they look better then I expected.

Here is what I did:

The tank I bought is a 10oz tank so I increased the recipe.

Water 10 oz
Washing Soda 3 tsp (level)
Ascoric Acid 1.25 g (2 1/2 500mg tablets, pre-crushed)
Folgers Coffee 5 tsp (slightly rounded)

I pre-mixed the fixer and the photoflo as per the instructions.

I used tap water, and adjusted the temp out of the tap until it read 21 c on my digital meat thermometer. (it also works as my timer, go Ikea!)

For the developer, I measured 10 oz water into a container, and used a water bath to hold the temp at 21c. I added the ascorbic acid, then the coffee, and finally the washing soda. gave it a shake until everthing was mixed. Then I returned it to the water bath for 10 minutes to allow the bubles to clear.

12 minute development time. continuous agitation by inversion for the first 30 sec. then one inversion every 30 sec. tapped the tank bottom after every inversion.

Used a water stop bath. 30 sec continous inversion. changed the water and let it sit 30 sec. new water and let it sit another 30 sec. dumped the water.

added the fix for 4 minutes as per the instructions.

rinsed with water. added photoflo and hung the negatives to dry over the bathtub.

Overall, I'm happy with how the whole process went. And yes, the stuff does smell like old stove grease.

So the question now is: "If I use a double-double from Tim's, would I get a creamier bokah?" (for the non-Canadians: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Hortons "

08-03-2008, 05:27 AM   #2
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If you use instant coffee can you cut the processing time?
08-03-2008, 01:48 PM   #3
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this is for standard black and white film, right? not c41 or e6?
08-03-2008, 02:04 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tom S. Quote
If you use instant coffee can you cut the processing time?


I actually did use instant coffee. But I made sure my espresso machine didn't see the jar

08-03-2008, 02:10 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by OniFactor Quote
this is for standard black and white film, right? not c41 or e6?
Yes it was a roll of tri-x 400.

I am about to go out and get the film scanned. With luck, I should have the result posted tonight.

Has anyone here ever used caffenol before?
08-03-2008, 10:50 PM   #6
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Scan your negs as color negatives just for fun.
I have used caffenol in the past, and the Cafenol+C was my test originally, check in the other threads, and in the APUG recipes section for tips.
08-03-2008, 11:03 PM   #7
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Ok. Here they are.

So you know what the set looked like, a control image. ISO 400, SMC-FA 1.4/50 at f11, 1/30 sec. Shot in raw. Whate balance in rawtherapee


I took 24 images of the set. All at f11. varied shutter only. Then I had the photo lab print all 24 images with the machine set to NOT compensate for light/dark images. I picked out the best two, that I liked for exposure. It turns out that the process seems to work best if the negative is over exposed by one stop. It turned out that there were 4 photos all with the same exposure. all four prints looked almost the same.

I had the lab scan one negative at the highest resolution they could. Camera was set to ISO 200, 1/30 sec at f11 (over exposed one stop). I then cropped the image to match the K10D image, and resized to the forum rules.


Here is a 100% crop of the center to show the grain structure.



Here is a 100% crop of an Ilford xp2 400 negative, developed by a lab (c41 process), and scanned at the same high res, by the same lab. Just here to compair the results.


Somrthing that did not show very well in the scan are a number of bubble marks on the negative. The caffenol C mixture was rather "frothy", and with the agitation by inversion, I think I just added to the bubbles. The next time I am going to try more then 10 oz in the tank, and agitate by turning. Maybe this will reduce the bubble marks.

So there you have it.

My first time developing film - ever. Done with chemicals from the grocery store.

And yes, there is some grain!

As a side note:

While on the topic of mixing stuff in the kitchen...

I would like to say I think the best vodka martinies are mixed with French Vermouth. Please note the bottle of Noiley Prat. Dryer then Italian.
08-03-2008, 11:13 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by titrisol Quote
Scan your negs as color negatives just for fun.
I have used caffenol in the past, and the Cafenol+C was my test originally, check in the other threads, and in the APUG recipes section for tips.
Titrisol,

I didn't see your post until after I had the negatives scanned. I used the Caffenol C mix, and it does not look like it stained the negatives. They have that light purple look I asociate with film.

It was your postings fron the "gimme-some-grain" thread that gave me the push to stop thinking about kitchen developing, and start doing it!

So thanks for the push! (pun intended)

Eric.

08-04-2008, 12:32 AM   #9
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1st. The negatives look great, I firmly believe that if you print those negs in an enalrger you'll see a LOT less grain.

2nd. Cheap coffee works fine, it is the caffeic acid that does the trick. And robusta seems to have more of caffeic acid and less of those flavour dingies.

3. FWIW I think Folgernol/Caffenol works best if you prepare it with the washing soda first (until all the grit is gone), then the vitamin C, then the coffee. Froth is gone, and you neutralize the caffeic acid faster thus releasing the cathecol-like chemicals.

Adding vitamin C was my idea to minimize the stain in Agfa APX400 which made the negatives unscanable but allowed to be printed in an enlarger. The stain is almost gone (depending on the film) but also the shadows get a small boost.
You did say that is TriX, do you have another Tri-X negative scanned, that should be a firer comparison
I tried it in several films and like other developers this one is a "honest grain"one and will only show whatever structure your film has.

Last edited by titrisol; 08-04-2008 at 12:35 AM. Reason: senile moment
08-04-2008, 07:40 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by titrisol Quote
1st. The negatives look great, I firmly believe that if you print those negs in an enalrger you'll see a LOT less grain.


2nd. Cheap coffee works fine, it is the caffeic acid that does the trick. And robusta seems to have more of caffeic acid and less of those flavour dingies.

3. FWIW I think Folgernol/Caffenol works best if you prepare it with the washing soda first (until all the grit is gone), then the vitamin C, then the coffee. Froth is gone, and you neutralize the caffeic acid faster thus releasing the cathecol-like chemicals.

Adding vitamin C was my idea to minimize the stain in Agfa APX400 which made the negatives unscanable but allowed to be printed in an enlarger. The stain is almost gone (depending on the film) but also the shadows get a small boost.
You did say that is TriX, do you have another Tri-X negative scanned, that should be a firer comparison
I tried it in several films and like other developers this one is a "honest grain"one and will only show whatever structure your film has.
1. thanks, yes the prints I had done do show less grain. Even at 4x6 the prints show great detail.

2. I'm using the jar of Folgers shown in the photo. I need to use it up somehow..

3. Thanks for this advice on order. I'll give it a try next time.

4. You added the ascorbic acid? I'll guess that with a handle like Titrisol, you are a chemest?

5. I don't have any other scans other then C41 processed film. Maybe someone could help out and post a 100% crop of tri-x 400?
08-04-2008, 11:54 PM   #11
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Generally the coffee stain produced a good contrast filter, such as the one produced by Pyro developers. I really loved the results in FP4, efke 100, J&Cpro100 but hated the result in Agfa APX400, very little details in the shadow and a too strong stain.
At the same time I was playing with P.Gainer's ascorbic developers (spring/summer 2004) so I decided that nothing could be lost in adding some ascorbate to the developer. To my surprise the stain was gone (almost) and the shadow detail was boosted.
The negatives were even easy to print, and DonaldQualls confirmed my results, after that he came with the Low-Contrast version (LC) and so forth.

That said I'm no chemist but chemical engineer (yes a geek by any count)




QuoteOriginally posted by KungPOW Quote
1. thanks, yes the prints I had done do show less grain. Even at 4x6 the prints show great detail.

2. I'm using the jar of Folgers shown in the photo. I need to use it up somehow..

3. Thanks for this advice on order. I'll give it a try next time.

4. You added the ascorbic acid? I'll guess that with a handle like Titrisol, you are a chemest?

5. I don't have any other scans other then C41 processed film. Maybe someone could help out and post a 100% crop of tri-x 400?
08-05-2008, 09:31 PM   #12
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An updated scan:

Here is a scan done with an Epson V500, at 4800 dpi. All the "auto correct" features like USM, and grain reduction turned off.

A very different look then the scan I had done at the lab.

I didn't expect such a difference.

08-05-2008, 11:47 PM   #13
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That's more like it!
Unfortunately "professional scanners"are not so good unless you tell them what you want.
Those machines create a lot of "digital grain" because those are designed for C41 films.

QuoteOriginally posted by KungPOW Quote
An updated scan:

Here is a scan done with an Epson V500, at 4800 dpi. All the "auto correct" features like USM, and grain reduction turned off.

A very different look then the scan I had done at the lab.

I didn't expect such a difference.
08-06-2008, 01:23 AM   #14
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Wow! Just wow.

You've made me want to try doing this myself. I'll have to bookmark it and add it to my priority list. Top priority list!
08-06-2008, 01:25 AM   #15
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Just spotted a bit of a problem:

No Arm&Hammer or Folger's Coffee Crystals available here!

Can anyone suggest any alternatives?
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