Show us your grain!

frank · 12-01-2008, 09:08 PM

Just wonder, do you guys develop the b&w film by yourself or simply send them to labs? I'm thinking of shooting some b&w again, but to find a good lab to have them developed isn't easy nowadays

Got two little kids at home, kinda hard to do it by myself ...

CSoars · 12-01-2008, 09:35 PM

Originally posted by frank

Just wonder, do you guys develop the b&w film by yourself or simply send them to labs? I'm thinking of shooting some b&w again, but to find a good lab to have them developed isn't easy nowadays

Got two little kids at home, kinda hard to do it by myself ...

I do it myself because otherwise I'd have to mail it to the next province for processing. Load the canister in the bathroom, then develop in the kitchen with the lights on. I've got temperature and timing down allright, need to work on avoiding water marks and dust when I hang it to dry.

jgredline · 12-01-2008, 09:38 PM

This has been a most enjoyable thread and what wonderful photography!!!

While they are ''all'' great, these in particular are my favs so far in no particular order....Well done!

jgredline · 12-01-2008, 09:40 PM

Stevopedia · 12-02-2008, 03:38 AM

Originally posted by Ratmagiclady

So, what the heck is *ist supposed to mean, anyway, apart from a search string that could bring up half the dictionary? Asteriskist? (Nightmare for Sylvester the Cat to pronounce, that way)

I'm always trying to figure out what rude word the asterisk is supposed to be hiding.

Possibly "*@&# styl-ist that convinced us it was a great idea to wrap everything in ersatz-chrome plastic?"

Anyway, it seems I found the b&W negative people. Hi.

I'm not currently shooting any of my film on Pentax, but probably will be eventually doing some of it on one.

The *ist is the last film body that Pentax ever introduced... as of now, anyway; one can always hope for the future

. Have a look at it at B. Dimitrov's excellent, excellent site, here.

As for the name, I'm sure it's just marketing mumbo jumbo.

Ratmagiclady · 12-02-2008, 09:31 AM

Originally posted by CSoars

I do it myself because otherwise I'd have to mail it to the next province for processing. Load the canister in the bathroom, then develop in the kitchen with the lights on. I've got temperature and timing down allright, need to work on avoiding water marks and dust when I hang it to dry.

Try getting some Rexton Hyperwet, it's the best wetting agent I've ever found: that'll really help with the spots. If your water's got a lot of lime in it, you can do sort of a final wash with some distilled water before you do the Hyperwet: that can help, too.

As for dust, the shower can work, and if you have forced-air heat, you can throw something over the vent in there, keeps any that may be present from continunuously blowing around to settle on your film.

artobest · 12-02-2008, 09:39 AM

Originally posted by jgredline

This has been a most enjoyable thread and what wonderful photography!!!

While they are ''all'' great, these in particular are my favs so far in no particular order....Well done!

That one of titrisol's - the two baby feet - is such a great composition.

Ratmagiclady · 12-02-2008, 09:46 AM

Originally posted by frank

Just wonder, do you guys develop the b&w film by yourself or simply send them to labs? I'm thinking of shooting some b&w again, but to find a good lab to have them developed isn't easy nowadays

Got two little kids at home, kinda hard to do it by myself ...

In addition to what Csoars said, one of those dark-bags is a really good way to fit in your tank-loading time: after I'd lost my old one, I waited a few years before I got round to getting another, and in a couple places where darkness was hard to come by, I would have to wait for night and throw a few blankets and such over my tank-loading in the bedroom. It really slowed up the works, particularly cause my sweetie goes to bed earlier than I do.

Jonson PL · 12-06-2008, 02:40 AM

Originally posted by artobest

Thanks. I can't take credit for the out-of-focusness of that shot though, much as I'd like to. It's a very close crop of another shot, as shown here. The chief glory of film for me is the pointillist effect you get from close cropping like this. It's something that other mediums just can't reproduce.

Sorry, I don’t know what pointillist effect means.

At the Sean Reid site, there was input from David Adamson, one of the most accomplished and respected digital exhibition printers working today. His clients, some of the most famous photographers and artists in the world, include Robert Frank, Annie Liebovitz, etc.
He states regarding grain; (in the Leica M8 review part 4) “… At this stage I run the file through Alien Skin exposure to apply grain and sharpening. I have found that the addition of small amounts of grain makes the image easier to read; it’s akin to adding dithered noise to analog-to-digital sound conversion. The eye, like the ear, locks on to abrupt changes, whether these changes are visual gradients or sound transitions. Noise in both instances smothes out the jaggies and makes the result more palatable to the viewer or listener.”

Here is another cropped image; probably has caused that some would say that it lacks sharpness. But I don’t mind the silhouette effect :

artobest · 12-06-2008, 05:03 AM

Sune -

Love the greys in that shot. The bench, the hair, the bushes, the grass.

Jonson PL · 12-19-2008, 12:22 AM

Originally posted by artobest

Sune -

Love the greys in that shot. The bench, the hair, the bushes, the grass.

Should I have kept it all in B&W ?

I know that the colour focus, is not exactly precise.

BTW, when discussing the qualities of film and grain, we can’t get by Duncan J Murray.

Here is one of his shots with Ilford Delta 3200 :
User Photo Gallery - People

And a thread discussing digital vs. film :
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-film-slr-discussion/25236-still-op...n-digital.html

artobest · 12-19-2008, 02:15 PM

Originally posted by Jonson PL

Should I have kept it all in B&W ?

I know that the colour focus, is not exactly precise.

Well, I don't know - the washed out colour gives it a chilly feel. If that's what you wanted to achieve. Maybe it could be a little warmer, given the subject matter.

**Lowell Goudge** · 12-20-2008, 06:04 AM

Originally posted by jgredline

This has been a most enjoyable thread and what wonderful photography!!!

While they are ''all'' great, these in particular are my favs so far in no particular order....Well done!

Just a small observation here.

The way you have re-posted these images is from copies in your own site. I am not sure forum members will appreciate you posting these elsewhere (image shack) without credit and implying that they are your images.

Nesster · 12-20-2008, 08:01 AM

Javier, that last set is excellent! Thanks!

Here's a sample - I used ASA800 film, probably Fuji but I can't remember for sure. Electro-X, Tamron 103a.

Here the same lens on the KX (the wonders of adaptall!) and Ilford XP2:

jgredline · 12-20-2008, 09:14 AM

Originally posted by Lowell Goudge

Just a small observation here.

The way you have re-posted these images is from copies in your own site. I am not sure forum members will appreciate you posting these elsewhere (image shack) without credit and implying that they are your images.

Ok, All gone. But why send me the PM and then Post what you sent me in the PM in public?

12-02-2008, 09:31 AM	#66
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Originally posted by CSoars I do it myself because otherwise I'd have to mail it to the next province for processing. Load the canister in the bathroom, then develop in the kitchen with the lights on. I've got temperature and timing down allright, need to work on avoiding water marks and dust when I hang it to dry. Try getting some Rexton Hyperwet, it's the best wetting agent I've ever found: that'll really help with the spots. If your water's got a lot of lime in it, you can do sort of a final wash with some distilled water before you do the Hyperwet: that can help, too. As for dust, the shower can work, and if you have forced-air heat, you can throw something over the vent in there, keeps any that may be present from continunuously blowing around to settle on your film. Last edited by Ratmagiclady; 12-02-2008 at 09:37 AM.

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12-01-2008, 09:08 PM	#61
frank Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Singapore Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,202	Just wonder, do you guys develop the b&w film by yourself or simply send them to labs? I'm thinking of shooting some b&w again, but to find a good lab to have them developed isn't easy nowadays Got two little kids at home, kinda hard to do it by myself ...

12-01-2008, 09:35 PM	#62
CSoars Inactive Account Join Date: May 2008 Location: Edmonton, Canada Posts: 322	Originally posted by frank Just wonder, do you guys develop the b&w film by yourself or simply send them to labs? I'm thinking of shooting some b&w again, but to find a good lab to have them developed isn't easy nowadays Got two little kids at home, kinda hard to do it by myself ... I do it myself because otherwise I'd have to mail it to the next province for processing. Load the canister in the bathroom, then develop in the kitchen with the lights on. I've got temperature and timing down allright, need to work on avoiding water marks and dust when I hang it to dry.

12-01-2008, 09:38 PM	#63
jgredline Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: LosAngeles, Ca. Photos: Albums Posts: 10,628	This has been a most enjoyable thread and what wonderful photography!!! While they are ''all'' great, these in particular are my favs so far in no particular order....Well done!

12-01-2008, 09:40 PM	#64
jgredline Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: LosAngeles, Ca. Photos: Albums Posts: 10,628

12-02-2008, 03:38 AM	#65
Stevopedia Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: South Carolina, USA Posts: 273	Originally posted by Ratmagiclady So, what the heck is ist supposed to mean, anyway, apart from a search string that could bring up half the dictionary? Asteriskist? (Nightmare for Sylvester the Cat to pronounce, that way) I'm always trying to figure out what rude word the asterisk is supposed to be hiding. Possibly "@&# styl-ist that convinced us it was a great idea to wrap everything in ersatz-chrome plastic?" Anyway, it seems I found the b&W negative people. Hi. I'm not currently shooting any of my film on Pentax, but probably will be eventually doing some of it on one. The *ist is the last film body that Pentax ever introduced... as of now, anyway; one can always hope for the future . Have a look at it at B. Dimitrov's excellent, excellent site, here. As for the name, I'm sure it's just marketing mumbo jumbo.

12-02-2008, 09:39 AM	#67
artobest Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Swansea, Wales Posts: 455 Original Poster	Originally posted by jgredline This has been a most enjoyable thread and what wonderful photography!!! While they are ''all'' great, these in particular are my favs so far in no particular order....Well done! That one of titrisol's - the two baby feet - is such a great composition.

12-02-2008, 09:46 AM	#68
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Originally posted by frank Just wonder, do you guys develop the b&w film by yourself or simply send them to labs? I'm thinking of shooting some b&w again, but to find a good lab to have them developed isn't easy nowadays Got two little kids at home, kinda hard to do it by myself ... In addition to what Csoars said, one of those dark-bags is a really good way to fit in your tank-loading time: after I'd lost my old one, I waited a few years before I got round to getting another, and in a couple places where darkness was hard to come by, I would have to wait for night and throw a few blankets and such over my tank-loading in the bedroom. It really slowed up the works, particularly cause my sweetie goes to bed earlier than I do.

12-06-2008, 02:40 AM	#69
Jonson PL Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Copenhagen Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,842	Originally posted by artobest Thanks. I can't take credit for the out-of-focusness of that shot though, much as I'd like to. It's a very close crop of another shot, as shown here. The chief glory of film for me is the pointillist effect you get from close cropping like this. It's something that other mediums just can't reproduce. Sorry, I don’t know what pointillist effect means. At the Sean Reid site, there was input from David Adamson, one of the most accomplished and respected digital exhibition printers working today. His clients, some of the most famous photographers and artists in the world, include Robert Frank, Annie Liebovitz, etc. He states regarding grain; (in the Leica M8 review part 4) “… At this stage I run the file through Alien Skin exposure to apply grain and sharpening. I have found that the addition of small amounts of grain makes the image easier to read; it’s akin to adding dithered noise to analog-to-digital sound conversion. The eye, like the ear, locks on to abrupt changes, whether these changes are visual gradients or sound transitions. Noise in both instances smothes out the jaggies and makes the result more palatable to the viewer or listener.” Here is another cropped image; probably has caused that some would say that it lacks sharpness. But I don’t mind the silhouette effect :

12-06-2008, 05:03 AM	#70
artobest Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Swansea, Wales Posts: 455 Original Poster	Sune - Love the greys in that shot. The bench, the hair, the bushes, the grass.

12-19-2008, 12:22 AM	#71
Jonson PL Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Copenhagen Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,842	Originally posted by artobest Sune - Love the greys in that shot. The bench, the hair, the bushes, the grass. Should I have kept it all in B&W ? I know that the colour focus, is not exactly precise. BTW, when discussing the qualities of film and grain, we can’t get by Duncan J Murray. Here is one of his shots with Ilford Delta 3200 : User Photo Gallery - People And a thread discussing digital vs. film : https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-film-slr-discussion/25236-still-op...n-digital.html

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12-19-2008, 02:15 PM	#72
artobest Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Swansea, Wales Posts: 455 Original Poster	Originally posted by Jonson PL Should I have kept it all in B&W ? I know that the colour focus, is not exactly precise. Well, I don't know - the washed out colour gives it a chilly feel. If that's what you wanted to achieve. Maybe it could be a little warmer, given the subject matter.

12-20-2008, 06:04 AM	#73
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,886	Originally posted by jgredline This has been a most enjoyable thread and what wonderful photography!!! While they are ''all'' great, these in particular are my favs so far in no particular order....Well done! Just a small observation here. The way you have re-posted these images is from copies in your own site. I am not sure forum members will appreciate you posting these elsewhere (image shack) without credit and implying that they are your images.

12-20-2008, 08:01 AM	#74
Nesster Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: NJ USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 13,072	Javier, that last set is excellent! Thanks! Here's a sample - I used ASA800 film, probably Fuji but I can't remember for sure. Electro-X, Tamron 103a. Here the same lens on the KX (the wonders of adaptall!) and Ilford XP2:

12-20-2008, 09:14 AM	#75
jgredline Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: LosAngeles, Ca. Photos: Albums Posts: 10,628	Originally posted by Lowell Goudge Just a small observation here. The way you have re-posted these images is from copies in your own site. I am not sure forum members will appreciate you posting these elsewhere (image shack) without credit and implying that they are your images. Ok, All gone. But why send me the PM and then Post what you sent me in the PM in public?