[following.eric]

Any threads in the forum for k mount non pentax slr.
Here in New Zealand selection can be limited and all based online. Seller knowledge can be low as well. A lot of selling on behalf of...

I'm trying to ask the right questions about winding issues shutter release and cocking. Light meter function.
I havent come across any pentax I love for the right price. First slr don't want a lot of investment. Prices on eBay seems surprisingly high for older slr and again buying as is.

Anyways I've found a good chinon cm5 but can't find much information on it. Like it's weaknesses or known problems.

I wish there were more pentax forums but for other brands or k mount devices.

I'm also assuming that light seals and other problems might not show until a roll of film is used and run through. I obviously can't test shutter speed accuracy

[Alex645]

Good question considering all the following "made" K-mount cameras:
Almaz, Carena, Cosina, Chinon, Edixa, Exacta, Lindenblatt, Miranda, Porst, Promaster, Quantaray, Ricoh, Sears, Sigma, Topcon, Vivitar, and Zenit.

There are devices that can help you test the shutter speeds on an SLR film camera. I bought one years ago and still use it if I donʻt want to bother running a visual test with film. Hereʻs one I found on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/Cam-Lite-LYSB01MQNZE0V-ELECTRNCS-Shutter-Speed-Tester...r+speed+tester

Out of curiosity, what is "the right price" for you? And is that with or without a lens, or do you have K mount lenses already?

[following.eric]

Good question considering all the following "made" K-mount cameras:
Almaz, Carena, Cosina, Chinon, Edixa, Exacta, Lindenblatt, Miranda, Porst, Promaster, Quantaray, Ricoh, Sears, Sigma, Topcon, Vivitar, and Zenit.

There are devices that can help you test the shutter speeds on an SLR film camera. I bought one years ago and still use it if I donʻt want to bother running a visual test with film. Hereʻs one I found on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/Cam-Lite-LYSB01MQNZE0V-ELECTRNCS-Shutter-Speed-Tester...r+speed+tester

Out of curiosity, what is "the right price" for you? And is that with or without a lens, or do you have K mount lenses already?

Right price for body and shipping would be less than 100nzd. So like 75usd. I know it's not much but like any camera you can get carried away and spend thousands when maybe you don't really need it. On eBay with shipping for a k1000 for example would be over 150nzd.
Body only. I have two lens already.

About to buy a chinon cm5 with lens and flash in good condition for 50nzd.

[Alex645]

At that price, a Chinon CM5 in good working order with a fungus free lens with no aperture or focus issues plus flash is an excellent deal. The only concern I would have if your budget doesn't include a potential CLA is your ability to return the purchase if you discover on the first roll the need for repairs.

Chinon CM-5 camera manual, instruction

Although I've sometimes come across inexpensive cameras in great condition, usually the owner moves onto to new gear because of something that needs repair and they'd rather invest in a replacement and not a repair. Reputable used dealers like KEH.com will stand behind their used gear.

Currently they have two ZX-30 (more modern features but lots of plastic) in the $19-$23 USD range.

Pentax ZX-30 (International Version Of MZ-30) 35mm Camera Body | KEH Camera

Also as a fellow site supporter, I assume you've checked the PF Market Place?

[following.eric]

At that price, a Chinon CM5 in good working order with a fungus free lens with no aperture or focus issues plus flash is an excellent deal. The only concern I would have if your budget doesn't include a potential CLA is your ability to return the purchase if you discover on the first roll the need for repairs.

Chinon CM-5 camera manual, instruction

Although I've sometimes come across inexpensive cameras in great condition, usually the owner moves onto to new gear because of something that needs repair and they'd rather invest in a replacement and not a repair. Reputable used dealers like KEH.com will stand behind their used gear.

Currently they have two ZX-30 (more modern features but lots of plastic) in the $19-$23 USD range.

Pentax ZX-30 (International Version Of MZ-30) 35mm Camera Body | KEH Camera

Also as a fellow site supporter, I assume you've checked the PF Market Place?

Ya I agree the right idea would to get a camera service by Eric and know that it will be good when it arrives.

Problem is every film I come across on ebay doesn't seem to list CLA service. Most even around the 100USD price just say everything functions correctly. I haven't come across one that has said service when. So the risk is there as well. I think most people selling film in NZ is because they have found it in a box and don't have a need for it. So yes I have the problem of tried up seals and that. Like the p30T I have. Widning on Issue. Sticky gooey rubber.

My plan was to shoot some film for a road trip I have coming up before I move to the u.k. And if my then I am in love with film I'll hae much better access to CLA cameras at a higher or investment price. If I get to the u.k and film was fun, but not for me then I haven't lost much investment.

Problem is, just like digital it's hard to buy from photos and peoples word off the internet. I have put a wanted add in the forum. We shall see

[Alex645]

Problem is every film I come across on ebay doesn't seem to list CLA service. Most even around the 100USD price just say everything functions correctly. I haven't come across one that has said service when.

My plan was to shoot some film for a road trip I have coming up before I move to the u.k. And if my then I am in love with film I'll hae much better access to CLA cameras at a higher or investment price. If I get to the u.k and film was fun, but not for me then I haven't lost much investment.

Problem is, just like digital it's hard to buy from photos and peoples word off the internet. I have put a wanted add in the forum. We shall see

Most people that invest in a recent CLA will either keep their camera or then up the price to get their money back.

For sure, youʻll have more selection of FSLRs in the UK, but keep in mind your love (or dissatisfaction) with film will be tainted by your camera. More so with film than with digital. Pick up a functioning but high action guitar for cheap, for example, and you may be turned off to learning guitar vs. getting something more expensive and the sound and playability becomes joy.

Another approach may be to invest more in a better camera, and then if itʻs not your cup of tea, that better camera will not only be easier to sell, but youʻll get your money back.

If the Chinon is in good functioning condition, it could be a ʻsleeperʻ as the model design and layout is classic. Good luck and keep us posted where you go with all this.

[following.eric]

If the Chinon is in good functioning condition, it could be a ʻsleeperʻ as the model design and layout is classic. Good luck and keep us posted where you go with all this.

The same could be said with cars, guitars and all the likes. I think the more important thing is Value. At the end of the day nobody wants to waste money and that goes both ways. Wasting loads of money of multiple non functions bodies, or spending too much on a camera body that may have been over kill. Classic example is the guy who puts all his money towards the top of the line dslr body but forgets about the glass. I also need money left over for film and development.

I a hundred percent agree that maybe a little invest could prove better. If film isn't for me I sell the camera at a better value, and if it is for me then my experience will better with a functional body.

As an update I did go ahead with the Chinon. I love the look, features and built. Classic Manual slr with good reviews and it will fit my 50mm 1.7. killer combo I hope. Fingers crossed the seller wasn't lying and it is functional. i'll fire off a roll next week, get it developed and take it from there.

If that camera proves to be a bust I might wait until I am in the U.K and decide if I still want to pursue film I'll do it right. Better investment from a reputable place where I can touch and test before purchase.

I'll let you guys know how it goes!

[LesDMess]

When discussing all manual 35mm cameras, people mention usability, reliability, size, and perhaps the presence or absence of a feature like DOF preview. I am wondering if we are purely talking manual is there anything that directly affects picture quality? The only thing I can think of is the shutter, is there anything in the design of shutters between cameras that actually ends up in a noticeably better or worse, or even just different result ? Or is there somethting else about manual cameras that I am missing that affects the end result directly ? Obviously the lens but I am thinking of the body.

Proper exposure is a key picture quality that is directly affected by the camera's meter - those with built-in meters anyway. In my immersion into the history of camera development, I have found only one camera that can meter a scene for as long as it takes (or batteries fail) while monitoring the scene in realtime and adjusting the exposure time accordingly and that is the Pentax LX.

For instance I used to have the Canon EOS3 in early 2000 and thought it incorporated all previous technology along with new features. I took this shot in aperture priority mode and found out that it's maximum autoexposure time is 30 seconds. This shot on Velvia 100 obviously came up underexposed from what I wanted.



I later found out that all Canons with aperture priority (past or present) have the same maximum time of 30 seconds.

Given that my latest and greatest camera had this shortcoming, I didn't expect any "older" camera to be able to do better. I later found out there were other cameras that can do better but only found the LX to be able to do it better consistently. I revisited the scene years later but this time using Kodak Ektar 100. The LX metered this scene for > 40minutes.



Even if there is an external meter that has the exposure range of the LX it obviously can't adjust exposure time when the scene's lighting changes. And I am fairly certain no one would want to babysit the camera for these extra long exposures.

[cooltouch]

When discussing all manual 35mm cameras, people mention usability, reliability, size, and perhaps the presence or absence of a feature like DOF preview. I am wondering if we are purely talking manual is there anything that directly affects picture quality? The only thing I can think of is the shutter, is there anything in the design of shutters between cameras that actually ends up in a noticeably better or worse, or even just different result ? Or is there something else about manual cameras that I am missing that affects the end result directly ? Obviously the lens but I am thinking of the body.

I can think of one instance that I've experienced that sort of addresses your question. The instance occurred back in the mid-1980s. I was shooting freelance at an auto race, using a Canon A-1, which really isn't a manual camera, but what happened could have just as easily happened with a manual camera.

I was shooting slides and when I got them back, I noticed one frame where the front of the race car I shot was in sharp focus but the rear was blurred. This wasn't a DOF issue either, since the car was moving across my field of view. It puzzled me for a while, but then it dawned on me. I'd probably been shooting at either 1/125 or 1/250 of a second. The Canon A-1 has a horizontally traversing shutter with a flash sync speed of 1/60. So at 1/125 or 1/250, a slit is traveling across the film plane. This is what must have occurred: as I was panning the car as it went by, my pan was not even. I either sped up or slowed down when the slit reached the rear of the car, causing the blur.

So, this is something that can indeed occur with a manual camera when shooting at speeds faster than flash sync. It's a pretty rare sort of thing that can occur, but it can happen -- in this case, with a horizontal shutter.

[following.eric]

If the Chinon is in good functioning condition, it could be a ʻsleeperʻ as the model design and layout is classic. Good luck and keep us posted where you go with all this.

Well I got the Camera yesterday and what a beauty she is. Photo's from seller made it look a bit used, but I don't think it was ever used, and if it was it was done by careful owners. From pulling it out of the box it worked right away, smooth film advance with responsive shutter fire. Two new batteries and the light meter worked. A bit weird to get used to with two red lights and one green. Surprisingly hard to get it on the green light. It will be under exposed and you'll turn the shutter speed one stop slower and it will go green, then pass right over to over exposed. But get's you in the pall park.
Loaded up some film, threw on the Pentax-A 50mm 1.7 and took a few test shots. Once I get it developed then I'll know how it did.

One question I got for you guys is the focusing screen/ infinity focus with the Pentax A 50mm 1.7

If I focus on something a few meters away and get it in focus, the whole focus screen and the round circle blurry thing will also be in focus and sharp. However if I then focus on mountains in the distance and turn it to infinity, only the blurry centre circle is sharp, the the rest of the focusing screen is slightly blurry. I have used the 50mm 1.7 on my k50 and I know it is sharp at infinity for distant mountains. Could this just be the focusing screen that isn't as sharp, could it be a spacing difference with the Chinon to the lens meaning I have now lost infinity. Or do I need to wait until the film is developed to find out?
I guess I should run tests on the Chinon lens provided to confirm.

[UncleVanya]

Wait for film. Also try some shots without the UV filter just in case there is some interaction there (not expected) but be sure to write down the frame numbers to be able to compare. As for the focusing screen - is it removable? If so the shims on it are critical just like in a DSLR. Finally there are processes documented for how to clean them - I haven't done it yet - I'm chicken.

[Alex645]

Well I got the Camera yesterday and what a beauty she is.

One question I got for you guys is the focusing screen/ infinity focus with the Pentax A 50mm 1.7

If I focus on something a few meters away and get it in focus, the whole focus screen and the round circle blurry thing will also be in focus and sharp. However if I then focus on mountains in the distance and turn it to infinity, only the blurry centre circle is sharp, the the rest of the focusing screen is slightly blurry. I have used the 50mm 1.7 on my k50 and I know it is sharp at infinity for distant mountains. Could this just be the focusing screen that isn't as sharp, could it be a spacing difference with the Chinon to the lens meaning I have now lost infinity. Or do I need to wait until the film is developed to find out?
I guess I should run tests on the Chinon lens provided to confirm.

Agreed with UncleV. Run tests at f/1.7 at various distances, taking notes, and trying the two methods you described.

Congratulations on the new camera. It looks like a winner. I doubt that youʻve actually lost infinity. The issue is with the viewfinder/focusing screen and not the lens. Keep us posted when you get those first rolls back. Look at the original film negs or slides with a loupe and a light table if possible.

[following.eric]

Agreed with UncleV. Run tests at f/1.7 at various distances, taking notes, and trying the two methods you described.

Congratulations on the new camera. It looks like a winner. I doubt that youʻve actually lost infinity. The issue is with the viewfinder/focusing screen and not the lens. Keep us posted when you get those first rolls back. Look at the original film negs or slides with a loupe and a light table if possible.

I don't think the owner ever used the camera. I cleaned and looked at the Chinon 35-80mm lens it came with and the mount itself is still has it's high chrome finish on it and none of the usual markings you would see from removing and putting on news lenses. That lens at infinity focused the same as the Pentax 50mm 1.7.

I read the original manual, since that came with the cameras as well and the part about the focusing screen focused mainly on the circle around the split screen. Hard to describe but there is the small circle in the middle with a line through it that splits when it's out of focus and then another circle around that which appears with hexes or tiny lines throughout when not in focus and those tiny lines disappear when in focus. Then you have everything outside the second circle which is the remaining view.

So anyways manual said when the small lines go away then the shot is in focus. and when I focus at infinity the center to circles are pretty much sharp and all the lines are gone, so my thinking is it is focused but not being shown sharp outside of those two circles.
I'll make notes on my first roll and see what happens.

I could clean the focusing screen, I wiped the outside above the mirror clean, but honestly the camera is untouched and I would think still at factory settings.

[UncleVanya]

Oh dear. I forget not all people grew up in the era of 35mm and may not understand split screen and microprism screens.

First lesson. Find a vertical line room corner fence post refrigerator etc. place the center so the line in the finder crosses that vertical line. Slowly rotate the focusing screen until the image parts line up exactly and that part of the image isn't split. If the lighting is poor or the max aperture of the lens is slow the finders center can black out. The collar around it is a microprism and it is hardest to describe how it looks when unfocused vs. focused. Outside that is the ground glass where the image should render shap when in focus.

A Demo of Split Screen and Microprism Ring Focusing in Old SLRs

---------- Post added 03-01-17 at 01:42 AM ----------

Do not attempt any cleaning of the focusing without first reading up on the topic.

[Alex645]

Your focusing screen sounds fairly standard. The very center is usually split horizontally so that if you have any vertical lines running through it, when it lines up, that is confirmation youʻve nailed it. I usually prefer that first ring beyond because when you stop seeing the microprism effect, youʻre in focus. The area outside of that is usually what is called a fresnel; it looks soft, but for some photographers it helps them to focus.

I doubt the camera was ʻneverʻ used. I mean it does happen, but generally most electro-mechanical devices suffer from either over-usage or dormancy. Iʻve known owners that cared more about their gear than their photography. Everything is stored in a super dry and clean environment, and the camera never experiences anything outdoors that could scratch, dent, or dirty it. The lens mountʻs near-perfect state could be that the original owner only had one lens and never took it off.

And kudos for reading the ownerʻs manual. I almost bought a two year old Nissan Versa Note. When I couldnʻt find a spare tire or jack, I asked the owner about it, and he said "When was the last time you had a flat? Modern cars donʻt have spares or jacks to save space and to make the car lighter for fuel economy." I didnʻt buy the car, but when I got home, I found the ownerʻs manual online and found out that his car had a full size spare and jack.