[boydmain]

Hi Folks,

I'm a long long long time user of a beloved ME Super and, of late, a range of Pentax DSLRs. Over the years I've built up a pretty great collection of M42 lenses (including a beautiful retrofocus auto-tak f2.3 35mm) and I've always used them with an adapter on my K-mount cameras. I've finally decided that with this gaggle of screwmount lenses at my disposal, I might as will step back in time, invest a fraction of what I've spent on glass, and actually get a body that these lenses were made for. But which one?!

Not too worried about cost - as I said, I've spent way more on glass than I expect I will for the body, so why not splurge a little?

Criteria:
Small (ME Super spoiled me)
Sturdy (I'm a klutz)
Built-in light meter (too lazy to use a handheld unless I'm doing pinholes)

Nice to have:
Aperture priority (again, ME Super spoiled me, and it's how I always use my DSLRs too)

I could possibly do without aperture priority, if the shutter speed dial is easy to adjust. For reference, I don't really like the usability of the MX - switching hand positions between shooting and adjusting the shutter speed dial just feels awkward and unpleasant.

So, where does that leave me? - Spotmatic ES, ES II, for aperture priority capability. Any others? And what about the usability/ergonomics of the shutter speed dials on other fully manual spotmatics? Any that stand out as easy to adjust relative to the others?

Any other suggestions (or dare I say it - non-pentax M42 bodies?)?

Thanks!

[stevebrot]

So, where does that leave me? - Spotmatic ES, ES II, for aperture priority capability. Any others? And what about the usability/ergonomics of the shutter speed dials on other fully manual spotmatics? Any that stand out as easy to adjust relative to the others?

The Chinon CE-3 provides aperture-priority exposure automation with all M42 lenses in a fairly compact body. As for shutter speed dial, the MX is a standout in terms of being difficult. The shutter dial on my SPII adjusts fairly easily with one finger (about the same as my KX), while my SP is somewhat harder.* My SV requires finger+thumb.**


Steve

* None of my Pentax bodies has as smooth a shutter dial as my Minolta SRT-101. It is truly a pleasure to use in that regard.

** Lest someone conclude that the regular SP or SV are a step down in mechanical precision, I would note that the film transport/wind-on of my SP is noticeably smoother than my SPII and the SV more so that either of the newer models.

[Ranchu]

All the manual spots have an easy to adjust speed dial, relative to the MX, I wouldn't worry. I would get a SP1000. Stop down metering is a PIA, and the selection of M42 cameras that have automatic stop down and and aperture priority is pretty minimal. The nice thing about using a handheld meter is that by the time you bring the camera to your eye, the camera is already set, so focus, frame, and shoot. Be aware that the shutters of these cameras are often tapering (capping), or will be soon. It's normal. 70 bucks or whatever to get a SP1000 tuned up is pretty reasonable, compared to how nice it is to shoot M42 lenses with auto stop down..

[pathdoc]

If a large proportion of your M42 lenses are SMC or Super-Multi-Coated Takumars, it pays to get a Spotmatic F, which can meter wide open to full advantage (the way the K mount bodies can) but which can devolve to full manual operation without batteries if the chips are down. The ES series is not so fully flexible when the batteries die, and the original electro-Spotmatic is so unreliable, difficult to repair and source parts for that IIRC Eric Hendrickson refuses to touch them.

With a Spotmatic F and Super-multi-coated or SMC lenses, you basically have an M42-mount KM in your hands.

Spotmatic II is the typical stop-down arrangement of the original Spotmatic but has an inbuilt flash hotshoe, for what that is worth, but it makes most sense then to buy a self-regulating flash with inbuilt thyristor. (The Spotty F also has a hotshoe)

Practically all of the Spotmatic bodies are the same size as the KM/KX/K2/K1000 series. If you're looking for something smaller, you either want an SV or S1a (completely unmetered) which are smaller from top to bottom plate and might grip easier in the hand, or even leave Pentax completely behind and look for a Fujica ST705.

That is about the same size as an MX but with M42 mount, and then the metering arrangement becomes roughly the same as the Spotmatic (i.e. you must stop down to meter), except that the Fujica activates its meter at the half press and the third finger can be slid up a touch to nudge the DOF preview for the stop-down. The Fujica also has a hotshoe, and the ST705 gives you a bonus 1/1500 at the high end and full manual operation with dead batteries. Other bonuses include a split prism finder (surrounded by a microprism, then by a Fresnel ring and finally a matte screen - it has it all). The downside is that the tripod bushing is way off centre to the left for some reason, so it will probably overbalance with most small tabletop tripods.

Of course if you find a Fujinon EBC lens that hasn't had the metering tab filed off to fit on non-Fuji bodies, it meters fully open just like the Spotmatic F and all the K mount film bodies do. But they are not so common and they are expensive, and you need a pathway to return the lens or claim partial refund if the seller gets it wrong and inadvertently sells you one that has been filed.

[stevebrot]

I would get a SP1000. Stop down metering is a PIA, and the selection of M42 cameras that have automatic stop down and and aperture priority is pretty minimal.

You lost me here. The SP1000 (Spotmatic SP minus self-timer) is a decent camera, but aside from "one less thing to break", there is nothing in particular to recommend it over the SP. As for automatic aperture actuation (stop-down) support, such is pretty much the norm for M42 bodies across brands since the early 1960s with the possible exception of some Zenit models. It is open-aperture metering that is fairly rare with all offerings being proprietary to the brand's line of lenses. M42 bodies that offered aperture-priority exposure automation were offered by several makers in the early 1970s with most supporting generic M42 lenses at some level.

The nice thing about using a handheld meter is that by the time you bring the camera to your eye, the camera is already set, so focus, frame, and shoot.

Yep, though one can do the same thing with a TTL manual metered body. At least that is the way I have done it since the early 1970s. Meter the subject and shoot until either the subject or light changes. There is no need to meter between exposures.

Practically all of the Spotmatic bodies are the same size as the KM/KX/K2/K1000 series.

More or less. My KX is about 2 mm deeper than my Spotmatics. The SPII is several millimeters shorter overall than the SP and both are shorter than the KX. I use the same ever-ready case for all three, but it is a distinctly tighter fit on the KX. I prefer the handling of the Spotmatics over the KX, but it is all relative. BTW...I just noticed that you have a Ricoh XR-1 in your signature. I don't believe I have ever seen one, though I have long thought that they are underrated, if my XR-2s is any indication...sort of a KX with a couple of handy innovations (e.g. 1/125s X sync).


Steve

[pathdoc]

Poor man's KX, is how I have seen it described. Loses mirror lockup. Gains multi exposure button. Not as nice a fit and finish, but does the job nicely and anyone who bought one back then should have considered themselves well served.

[Ranchu]

You lost me here. The SP1000 (Spotmatic SP minus self-timer) is a decent camera, but aside from "one less thing to break", there is nothing in particular to recommend it over the SP. As for automatic aperture actuation (stop-down) support, such is pretty much the norm for M42 bodies across brands since the early 1960s with the possible exception of some Zenit models. It is open-aperture metering that is fairly rare with all offerings being proprietary to the brand's line of lenses. M42 bodies that offered aperture-priority exposure automation were offered by several makers in the early 1970s with most supporting generic M42 lenses at some level.

Oh ho.

1)The SP1000 is newer than the rest of the spotmatic bodies. That in particular is enough to recommend it, imo. I also have two, and I like them.

2) I said "how nice it is to shoot M42 lenses with auto stop down.." as a contrast to using them on an adapter, as the OP has been doing. You should assume I am aware that auto stop down bodies are common.

Yep, though one can do the same thing with a TTL manual metered body. At least that is the way I have done it since the early 1970s.

You do that on the first shot too? No? So, not really the same then is it?

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Last edited by Ranchu; 06-29-2017 at 06:16 PM.

[ChrisPlatt]

An SP1000 serviced by Eric is the only M42 screw mount body I have chosen to keep.

Chris

[stevebrot]

1)The SP1000 is newer than the rest of the spotmatic bodies. That in particular is enough to recommend it, imo. I also have two, and I like them.

SPII 1971-1976
SP F 1971 1973-1976
SP1000 1973-1976
ESII 1973-1975

OK...a three-way tie to "newest". I was going to comment further, but thought better of it. I am glad you like your two (new to you?) SP1000.


Steve

[Ranchu]

Feel free to comment as much as you like.

[pathdoc]

The nice thing about using a handheld meter is that by the time you bring the camera to your eye, the...

...fleeting subject has often vanished.

This is why I recommended a Spotmatic F, IF most of the OP's lenses are designed to work with it. While I agree that sometimes it's nice to slow down a little, and a hand-held meter is a good thing when the subject is static, sometimes one needs to work faster than that.

@stevebrot was merely clarifying the difference between automatic stop-down (common) and open-aperture metering (much less so), and there was no need to take him to task for it. Although if I recall correctly, the SP-F was only released in 1973, well AFTER the S-M-C lenses it had been designed to use.

[Nuno Almeida]

Well my experience is limited, I have a Spotmatic F, just recently cla, and a Chinon Ce Memotron, the Chinon is a lot faster to use, simply because it has AV, when working in manual I don't like the meter too much, in good light, no problem, in low light the scale is hard to read, 1/2000 metal blades shutter, great stop down system, it's a awesome camera, but it's a beast, it's big and heavy and lacks the finesse the Spotie has, they are both extremely well built, the Chinon is rough, the Spotie is elegant.
If I would use just SMC lens the Spottie F, on the other hand , there are so many fine lens to explore and the Memotron works the same with them all, overall I prefer to use the Spotie, but the Memotron is the faster camera to use

[stevebrot]

Although if I recall correctly, the SP-F was only released in 1973, well AFTER the S-M-C lenses it had been designed to use.

You recall correctly! I miss-typed (copy/paste error) and just corrected. I too find it strange that Asahi put off release of the SP-F for two years after release of the S-M-C lenses. I have read speculation that the intent was to draw down inventory of Spotmatic subassemblies before releasing a strong challenger to the SPII.


Steve

P.S. I learned something new when looking into the various Pentax models discussed on this thread. I did not know that the ESII featured viewfinder blinds for when the photographer's eye is away from the eyepiece in automatic mode. It is a pity that this feature was replaced on later Pentax product by an easy-to-lose eyepiece cover.

[boydmain]

This is why I recommended a Spotmatic F, IF most of the OP's lenses are designed to work with it.

Hey, thanks everyone for the input. I'm learning a lot. My M42 lenses are not all of the SMC era, some predate it. A couple of key ones are Auto-takumar, which have been my favorites to use on my DSLRs because they somehow allow proper metering in Av mode, across all aperture settings, without having to use the green button (even better than the M-lenses). That's making me think the Spotmatic F might somehow meter properly with them, but I'm still pretty hazy on the mechanics of those lenses and the metering on this body. Any insight on that issue?

[Nuno Almeida]

The Spotie F will meter with those lenses if you stop it down, in the case of the Spotmatic by pushing a lever on the left side of the camera mount. Will give constant correct readings with SMC lenses, it has no AV function