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09-26-2017, 07:08 PM   #1
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What, in your opinion, is the most underrated Pentax manual focus 35mm SLR?

I'd say from 1957 thru 1983 because I couldn't personally care less about the P series but I guess somebody's got to love them so we'll just say all manual focus 35mm SLRs. I'm not talking about the LX. Of course everyone knows that it's a great camera, probably Pentax's best ever, if not the world's best ever manual focus 35mm SLR so I don't think the LX could be considered underrated at all. Some might even say that it's overrated if anything.

No, I'm talking here about that camera in the site's reviews list that for some reason got a 7.3 or something and you just can't fathom the reason because you think it's truly a gem. Maybe it's a camera that's rated an 8, while other cameras of the exact same build quality with fewer "necessary" features are rated a 9.2. There are acouple like this that come to my mind. For instance, why is the KM not rated higher than the K1000? It has the same build quality, same dead-simple meter, and a self timer, yet the K1000 gets the nod from the community as a very slightly better machine. Another is the ME Super. I've had several. In fact it was the first 35mm SLR I ever owned. I absolutely love the ME Super and believe that it is nearly perfect, 9.5 perfect, yet it only rates an 8.85 while the identical ME (sans manual mode) rates a very close 8.26. I would think that the inclusion of manual mode would be worth a solid one pint lead over the ME at least.

This brings me to the M42 bodies. I have the AP and the K and they are both beautiful masterpieces. The precision that can be felt while using these beauties cannot be questioned. They are reminiscent of an era of extreme craftsmanship never to be enjoyed by mankind again and that has earned them their places as two of the landmarks of our favorite maker. I will take issue with the low rating of the AP in comparison to the nearly identical K though. The one that takes the cake for me though is the SV. I just ADORE this little camera. It is sized just ever so slightly smaller than the K series and the Spotmatics that to me it just feels perfect in the hand where a K1000 is like holding a brick. The SV feels about as good to me as the LX. Having an opportunity to acquire an S1a, I saw that it received higher marks than the SV so I grabbed it. To my dismay, I found that it is nothing more than an SV that's missing the 1/1000 shutter speed and self timer. For an every day shooting camera, I'd say the SV beats the S1a hands down. I'd say the SV is the most underrated Pentax manual focus 35mm SLR out there.

09-26-2017, 07:13 PM - 1 Like   #2
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The Pentax ME. Lots of folks dismiss it because it is aperture-priority auto-exposure which requires batteries to operate.
09-26-2017, 07:32 PM   #3
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P3N/P30N

As for the SV, you are not alone in appreciating it qualities. I would wager that it is probably as highly regarded on this site as the Spotmatic that it shared market with through much of the 1960s...hardly underrated. (I am excessively fond of mine.)


Steve
09-26-2017, 07:47 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by ctrout Quote
Of course everyone knows that it's a great camera, probably Pentax's best ever, if not the world's best ever manual focus 35mm SLR so I don't think the LX could be considered underrated at all.
. . .
I will take issue with the low rating of the AP in comparison to the nearly identical K though.
I suppose the review may have a lot to do with perspective from the reviewer.

At the time of it's release, the LX was Pentax's first attempt at an interchangeable VF full system camera while both Canon and Nikon were on their third. It is likely those users didn't think much of the LX. Of course today we know that while all other features available at that time have been superseded, the LX's meter stands unequaled by any brand or model - past or present.

The low rating on the AP is a reflection of not enough reviews and I believe it also lacks perspective. I will be sure to review that soon enough as it is my sentimental favorite - my birthyear.

A little perspective from the magazines of that period and you can see that rangefinders were the dominant lot - by a country mile! Sure there were SLRs then but the AP finally solved the biggest issue then - the VF blacking out after a shot is taken!

If you haven't seen it, the review from Cameraquest is excellent -> Pentax Original

09-26-2017, 07:55 PM - 1 Like   #5
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ME Super

Huge, bright VF and all the controls you need for superior shooting.
09-26-2017, 07:59 PM   #6
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AquaDome, I am one who hesitates on the ME because the lack of manual override. I have a flawless CLA'd ME SE that I got for a song ($23) and it's a pleasure to carry and uese but I'll give a strong nod to the ME Super between the two. I'd say the Super A is best because I like the option of Program exposure but aperture priority AE can do all that program can while giving the photographer better creative control and the Super A's readout in the viewfinder is absolute crap so the ME Super still wins.

Steve, I have the Spotmatic as well but I'm not a fan of the fiddly meter operation. My experience is that the meter switch will eventually begin to stick and not fully release when taking a shot. I guess that for the era though, if you wanted a built in meter, you didn't have a lot of options. I could be content with my Spottie after a CLA I guess. I just think that if you are considering a batteryless camera, the SV is the best of the bunch but the ratings here and the pricing on Ebay doesn't reflect its true worth. I got mine in mint cosmetic condition needing a CLA (now completed) for a grand total of $11.10 shipped.

LesDMess, thanks for the link. Also, once my AP is CLA'd and in working order I'll give it a review and probably bring the score up a bit. Mine is having an issue where the shutter is being tripped before the mirror and the clockwork on the slower speeds isn't keeping the shutter open long enough. I expect that once Eric has had his way with it, it will be every bit as awesome as my K and I'd give the K a solid 9.

Aristophanes, as you may be able to tell from my high praise, I am also a huge fan of the ME Super. I don't know why the push button shutter speed adjustment gets so much hate. I actually prefer the buttons over a dial. If I had said choose the 2 most underrated, the ME Super would have easily been my second choice. I prefer it to my MX.

Last edited by ctrout; 09-26-2017 at 08:08 PM.
09-26-2017, 08:03 PM - 1 Like   #7
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The ME is a fantastic, very underrated camera.

However...

My vote goes to the P3n (not the P3). I'll admit I'm biased, as the P3n was my first camera, but I do have many reasons:

1. The easiest film loading of any manual wind Pentax SLR.
2. Light seals that just don't go bad.
3. A nice but modest grip on the front AND a thumb grip on the back
4. A one finger operable shutter speed dial.
5. The battery compartment requires no tools to open or close, and you can't loose the cap, because it's permanently attached.
6. It will run for years on a pair of LR44's.
7. DX ISO setting. No, you can't manually override it, but when was the last time you actually did that?
8. It's pleasantly light, but not too light.
9. Shutter release cables thread into the side of the lens mount instead of the shutter button.
10. The set shutter speed is back lit in the viewfinder, while the recommended shutter speed is back lit and blinking. super simple, super easy to understand.
11. Nice, beefy, single purpose DOF preview lever.
12. Bright red light that blinks for self timer. Easily seen in broad daylight.
13. A decently large viewfinder that this user can see all 4 corners of while wearing his glasses.
14. This one is definitely subjective, but in my opinion, it is a really good looking camera. I know it doesn't really matter, but it kind of does.

Yes the shutter sounds a bit hollow compared to the earlier Pentax cameras, but it doesn't sound bad, just different. The viewfinder isn't the biggest ever, but it's hardly tiny. Toss on a M 50 f/1.7 and you have a nice, lightweight, easy to use walking around camera. If you want it even lighter, toss on a Ricoh 50mm f/2. With a bit of careful shopping, he Ricoh lens and the P3n should collectively set you back about $50. At that price, you can just casually hand the camera to your mugger and say "Here you go.". If I have one true complaint with the P3n, it is the lack of exposure compensation. Then again, I only recall getting a bad exposure out of my P3n when I know I manually overrode what it suggested.

09-26-2017, 08:39 PM - 1 Like   #8
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Steve, I just popped over and looked at the reviews for the P3N and I see that the single biggest complaint is that there is no override for DX coding. For the person who only shoots single cartridges of film this would be a non-issue. As someone who shoots bulk film, I have to say that the lack of DX override would be a deal breaker for me too. I would guess that many people here probably do there own developing and bulk film loading so I can see why the P3N is rated the way it is. Usually those of us who are drawn to "old school" things like film cameras have an aversion to plastic too so I think that might also be a contributing factor. Of course, there are a lot of very personal considerations that go into choosing an "ideal" so it would be easy to understand why some folks would say that something like the SV should never rate higher than a 6 because it's heavy and has no built-in meter.
09-26-2017, 08:52 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Steve Beswick Quote
14. This one is definitely subjective, but in my opinion, it is a really good looking camera. I know it doesn't really matter, but it kind of does.
I think it's not so attractive; mostly based on the top where the controls are. I prefer the Super Program (though also I am more used to it).

But -- if you can easily change the shutter speed with one finger, that is a very nice feature.
09-26-2017, 10:13 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
P3N/P30N

As for the SV, you are not alone in appreciating it qualities. I would wager that it is probably as highly regarded on this site as the Spotmatic that it shared market with through much of the 1960s...hardly underrated. (I am excessively fond of mine.)

Steve
QuoteOriginally posted by Steve Beswick Quote
The ME is a fantastic, very underrated camera.

However...

My vote goes to the P3n (not the P3). I'll admit I'm biased, as the P3n was my first camera, but I do have many reasons:

1. The easiest film loading of any manual wind Pentax SLR.
2. Light seals that just don't go bad.
3. A nice but modest grip on the front AND a thumb grip on the back
4. A one finger operable shutter speed dial.
5. The battery compartment requires no tools to open or close, and you can't loose the cap, because it's permanently attached.
6. It will run for years on a pair of LR44's.
7. DX ISO setting. No, you can't manually override it, but when was the last time you actually did that?
8. It's pleasantly light, but not too light.
9. Shutter release cables thread into the side of the lens mount instead of the shutter button.
10. The set shutter speed is back lit in the viewfinder, while the recommended shutter speed is back lit and blinking. super simple, super easy to understand.
11. Nice, beefy, single purpose DOF preview lever.
12. Bright red light that blinks for self timer. Easily seen in broad daylight.
13. A decently large viewfinder that this user can see all 4 corners of while wearing his glasses.
14. This one is definitely subjective, but in my opinion, it is a really good looking camera. I know it doesn't really matter, but it kind of does.

Yes the shutter sounds a bit hollow compared to the earlier Pentax cameras, but it doesn't sound bad, just different. The viewfinder isn't the biggest ever, but it's hardly tiny. Toss on a M 50 f/1.7 and you have a nice, lightweight, easy to use walking around camera. If you want it even lighter, toss on a Ricoh 50mm f/2. With a bit of careful shopping, he Ricoh lens and the P3n should collectively set you back about $50. At that price, you can just casually hand the camera to your mugger and say "Here you go.". If I have one true complaint with the P3n, it is the lack of exposure compensation. Then again, I only recall getting a bad exposure out of my P3n when I know I manually overrode what it suggested.
I'm with you two. The P30N is a great camera that can be bought for very little and seems to be one of the few electronic cameras built in the 80s that's (A) reliable and (B) solidly built.
09-27-2017, 01:55 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by ctrout Quote
Steve, I just popped over and looked at the reviews for the P3N and I see that the single biggest complaint is that there is no override for DX coding. For the person who only shoots single cartridges of film this would be a non-issue. As someone who shoots bulk film, I have to say that the lack of DX override would be a deal breaker for me too. I would guess that many people here probably do there own developing and bulk film loading so I can see why the P3N is rated the way it is. Usually those of us who are drawn to "old school" things like film cameras have an aversion to plastic too so I think that might also be a contributing factor. Of course, there are a lot of very personal considerations that go into choosing an "ideal" so it would be easy to understand why some folks would say that something like the SV should never rate higher than a 6 because it's heavy and has no built-in meter.
You asked for underrated and I gave you underrated. I have owned the P3N and found it to be well-made and full-featured with excellent control layout and handling. The lack of DX override is the camera's Achilles heel and why I did not keep it. That being said, I still think it is underrated and preferable to the similarly spec'd Program Plus/Program A in several ways.


Steve
09-27-2017, 02:02 AM   #12
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I know...I already gave my suggestion, but figured there is another truly under-appreciated model, that being the KM.


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09-27-2017, 02:34 AM - 1 Like   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
there is another truly under-appreciated model, that being the KM.
The KM certainly is underrated compared with the K1000, which in effect replaced it after a short life. The latter almost always gets rave reviews and was manufactured to meet demand for over 20 years; it had/has a cult following. Yet not many people seem to realise that it was only a KM with the film speed reminder and the self-timer/DoF lever removed, to save manufacturing cost. Some K1000 fans say that a self-timer lever is "confusing". Both the KM and K1000 were themselves the old Spotmatic F relaunched in the K-Series style outer body (with K lens mount of course), and were already rather out-of date from Day 1 with their sluggish CdS meter. Their contemporary K2 and KX had faster silicon photocells for metering.

I think that the KX was the most underrated camera.
09-27-2017, 04:39 AM   #14
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P3n, my most used film camera (have 2). The reasons have already been well stated, the DX coding is easily dealt with, so not a issue to me.
09-27-2017, 05:01 AM   #15
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K1000 & The Human Mind easily a 10 ! You can even bang nails with it although it affects resale value.
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