[cameracravings]

Hi, please anybody I need an advice on this.

I got this Pentax SPII on ebay and it wasn't pretty. It had a smell and looked like it was sitting in a humid basement for 20 years! After taking the camera apart and thoroughly cleaning and lubing it I adjusted shutter speeds and got pretty close to spec and definitely well within tolerances including 1/1000 and 1/500. I slightly adjusted bounce brake and high speed. 2nd curtain was really lagging and needed the most adjustment.

So I was happy with the result and in a few days decided to re-check speeds and I found that all high speeds were off underexposing by 1.5 - 2 stops. My shutter speed tester suggested that the 2nd curtain was lagging again. So I tensioned it a little more last night and once again got all the speeds well within tolerances. Now I re-checked speeds and I see that 1/1000 is actually 1/700 which is outside tolerances and 1/500 is actually 1/400 which is within tolerances but still off. Other speeds 1/250 - 1/30 are all spot on!

Is this the normal behavior for Spotmatics? Is there any way to remedy this by, for example, replacing high-speed cam or curtains with rollers? My camera has high-speed cam part number 05319 installed, which is faster one.

Thanks for any help! Much appreciated!

[TomB_tx]

It's not unusual to have such variation if all traces of old lubricant aren't thoroughly flushed out before applying the proper lubes. Ideally this is by disassembling so the ends of shafts and inside of bearings can be completely cleaned. I had similar issues with a 60's Pentax that I tried to clean without total disassembly, so I sent it to Eric. He sent back a photo of it on his bench with the shutter completely torn down. It has been fine for years since.
If this isn't done, and you try to adjust the curtain tension to overcome excess friction in the bearings, it is quite possible to over-tension and stress the springs so they begin to relax. Ideally, once the bearings are fully cleaned and re-lubed, the spring tension should be set by timing the curtain speed of each curtain, and setting tension no higher than necessary.
Often you can get acceptable performance with a lesser clean and "tweaks" - but sometimes a true disassembly and service is necessary.

[stevebrot]

Is this the normal behavior for Spotmatics?

My understanding is this is normal behavior for long-dormat and retensioned mechanical horizontal shutters regardless of brand. My camera tech explained this to me several years ago along with the observation that it was a "pain in the ****". With exercise, the shutter should even out, if I understood him correctly.


Steve

[cameracravings]

It's not unusual to have such variation if all traces of old lubricant aren't thoroughly flushed out before applying the proper lubes. Ideally this is by disassembling so the ends of shafts and inside of bearings can be completely cleaned. I had similar issues with a 60's Pentax that I tried to clean without total disassembly, so I sent it to Eric. He sent back a photo of it on his bench with the shutter completely torn down. It has been fine for years since.
If this isn't done, and you try to adjust the curtain tension to overcome excess friction in the bearings, it is quite possible to over-tension and stress the springs so they begin to relax. Ideally, once the bearings are fully cleaned and re-lubed, the spring tension should be set by timing the curtain speed of each curtain, and setting tension no higher than necessary.
Often you can get acceptable performance with a lesser clean and "tweaks" - but sometimes a true disassembly and service is necessary.

Thanks TomB for your ideas, seems like you've opened a few of these cameras It does make sense what you are saying. I did disassemble my camera almost completely except for I did not remove curtains / curtain shafts because the spotmatic repair manual stated, "...pipes containing curtain springs should never be immersed in cleaning liquid..." So I thought I should not touch them, but I did lubricate the ends of curtain shafts in their holes. I have a zombie spotmatic lying around, I shall take the curtains out and see if I can clean it and lubricate and make it work properly. On a re-read of the manual I noticed mentioning of the tolerances between the shafts and retaining plates -- "Check if the clearance between the pinion shaft collar (05135) and the top mec. plate (03001) along the shaft
direction is adequate. The pinion shaft will not rotate smoothly without an adequate clearance. Adjustment of
the clearance should be made with (W6) washers." . This could be it. I have nothing against Eric, but I would like to repair my cameras myself. I think better understanding the build of the camera makes me a better photographer. Thanks again!

---------- Post added 03-01-18 at 10:13 PM ----------

My understanding is this is normal behavior for long-dormat and retensioned mechanical horizontal shutters regardless of brand. My camera tech explained this to me several years ago along with the observation that it was a "pain in the ****". With exercise, the shutter should even out, if I understood him correctly.


Steve

Hi Steve, thanks! Sounds just like Italian tune up on my 1984 Mercedes Benz 300d. If it's choking and strutting and stalling and jerking and rattling, you just drive it for a 1000 miles and it will tune itself up! LOL. If it works out like this for my spotmatic, I am buying you a drink!

[cameracravings]

My understanding is this is normal behavior for long-dormat and retensioned mechanical horizontal shutters regardless of brand. My camera tech explained this to me several years ago along with the observation that it was a "pain in the ****". With exercise, the shutter should even out, if I understood him correctly.


Steve

So, just to give an update. I did not want to disassemble the camera again so I decided to exercise the shutter instead. I fired 100 times at 1/1000 and 100 times at 1/500 and at all other high speeds I fired it about 20 times each. It did help the problem. High shutter speeds did even out and I actually had to slow 2nd curtain down a bit. I decided I will exercise the shutter 30-40 times before every roll as a preventative measure and hopefully everything is going to be fine. Thanks again for your thoughts!!!

[stevebrot]

Thanks again for your thoughts!!!

You can thank Mike Knight, formerly of Knight Camera Repair in Vancouver, WA USA and now at Blue Moon Camera in Portland. It was Mike that gave me that bit of wisdom.


Steve

[cameracravings]

Hi Steve

as it turns out there is no quick fix for my Spotty. Everything works perfectly indoors, but when I took it outside in a 40 degree weather the first curtain wouldn't go all the way in at speeds 1/125 and below. I could see the cap of the first curtain. Gently pushing on a curtain would complete its travel. Unfortunately, I will have to open my Spotty up again and tinker with it some more. Cheers!

Alecs

[gofour3]

Unfortunately, I will have to open my Spotty up again and tinker with it some more. Cheers!

While it may be fun to tinker with your camera, at some point you are going to have to send it to a professional to get it permanently fixed. Eric has the parts and can do this repair in his sleep.

Otherwise you are going to spend more time indoors fixing your Spotmatic than outside shooting.

Of course it's your camera and you can do what you want, it's just a suggestion.

Phil.

[cameracravings]

While it may be fun to tinker with your camera, at some point you are going to have to send it to a professional to get it permanently fixed. Eric has the parts and can do this repair in his sleep.

Otherwise you are going to spend more time indoors fixing your Spotmatic than outside shooting.

Of course it's your camera and you can do what you want, it's just a suggestion.

Phil.

Hey Phil, good point! No point for a photographer to spending too much time indoors, but I do love fixing my own cameras.