Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
04-05-2018, 07:25 AM   #1
Forum Member




Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 66
Benefits to Film Era Cameras?

Hello there.

I've been a hobbyist for a few years now. I'm in my 20s and have only played around with digital cameras. A friend of mine is looking to sell off his Pentax Super Program and a slew of accessories and lenses for pretty cheap. I'm wondering if it is worth it. This is not so much about the gear itself but era the products came from. Are there benefits/lessons to gained from playing around with a film era camera when you're only experience is digital? I was excited by the prospect of learning something new (to me) and the fact I could acquire several old lens and accessories that could work with my K3-II. Just wanted to get some insight since many people here have doing this far longer than I have.

Thanks in advance for any insight you may have to offer!

04-05-2018, 07:53 AM - 8 Likes   #2
Veteran Member
Ontarian50's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 530
While many will go on and on debating the merits of the film image compared to a digital image, and vice versa, I find the main enjoyment I get out of shooting film is the actual shooting experience. Digital brought us that little screen on the back, which we feel compelled to consult after every few shots. Since the cameras can be adjusted for ISO, white balance, colour profile, etc, etc, we feel compelled to keep changing, changing, changing our settings.
With film, you load up the camera with the emulsion of your choice, and you've got 24 or 36 shots to make the most of it - and you won't know how successful you were until it's developed. That commitment to those 24 or 36 shots, and the anticipation of the results is what keeps film relevant for many shooters.
04-05-2018, 07:57 AM - 3 Likes   #3
Pentaxian
photoptimist's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2016
Photos: Albums
Posts: 5,104
Here are at least four benefits of film:

1. Film can help focus the mind on the image creation process. Knowing that each frame costs real money, there's only 24 or 36 shots on a cartridge, and you can't instantly check whether you got the shot may change how you shoot. It can force you to really learn how to do things right rather than spray-and-pray or click-and-chimp.

2. Some people simply enjoy the physical and mental processes of developing film and using a darkroom. If digital is like clicking online to get a meal delivered, film can be like cooking your own dinner from scratch in the kitchen. (And that can lead to more chemically-inclined branches of photography such as making your own caffenol developer or doing wet-plate collodion)

3. Some people simply like the look of film. Although digital sensors now really do beat 35 mm film on almost every image performance dimension, the look is different. And if you discover you like film, you might move up to doing medium format or large format film where film can still beat digital in total resolution.

4. It puts you in a different league of photographers who look at photography a bit differently than the fix-it-in-photoshop herds.


If any of these four benefits resonate with you, then buying the Pentax Super Program would be worth it. And as you said, you really will learn a lot.
04-05-2018, 07:58 AM   #4
Junior Member
pendennis's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 41
I own a couple of Super Programs, a Program Plus, Spotmatics (2), and a K2. This is just a small part of my film "arsenal" (Nikon, Canon, Olympus, Mamiya medium format, and large format [4x5]). I've been photographing things of all kinds for over 50 years, and film still has a draw to it, that isn't fulfilled with my digital equipment.

Film and digital are different media, and they work better when used in complimentary fashions. I've scanned literally thousands of transparencies and negatives, and I can now get results that weren't achievable during the "film only" era.

If you haven't tried film, buy the gear (if it's reasonably priced), get some film and try it. You may be surprised by the results. You don't get the instant gratification of digital, but you may be pleasantly surprised by your efforts.

Good luck.

04-05-2018, 08:07 AM - 8 Likes   #5
Veteran Member
CarlJF's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Quebec City
Posts: 1,185
Outside of learning how things were done in the film era, there's nothing to learn or benefits from a film era camera if you want to improve your photography.

But you can have an idea of what is was to shoot slide with your K3-II. Set the camera in jpg only, select a picture mode, set the ISO at max 400, the WB to sunny, and keep these settings for the next 36 shots, no matter the situation. You can change these settings only after each 36 shots (you can use a 256MB or 512MB SD card). For each of these 36 shots, give 20$ to someone (film and developing weren't free). Use MF and only M, Av and Tv exposure modes. If you use a flash, you can only use it in manual mode. Shut down the back LCD, chimping is completely forbidden, you can only look at the pictures once they're downloaded to your computer, and you can look at them only 2-3 days after they were taken. No PP is possible, not even cropping. Enjoy!

Last edited by CarlJF; 04-05-2018 at 08:13 AM.
04-05-2018, 08:14 AM   #6
Pentaxian
dsmithhfx's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,113
QuoteOriginally posted by 24thNomad Quote
Hello there.

I've been a hobbyist for a few years now. I'm in my 20s and have only played around with digital cameras. A friend of mine is looking to sell off his Pentax Super Program and a slew of accessories and lenses for pretty cheap. I'm wondering if it is worth it. This is not so much about the gear itself but era the products came from. Are there benefits/lessons to gained from playing around with a film era camera when you're only experience is digital? I was excited by the prospect of learning something new (to me) and the fact I could acquire several old lens and accessories that could work with my K3-II. Just wanted to get some insight since many people here have doing this far longer than I have.

Thanks in advance for any insight you may have to offer!
  • Light leaks
  • Off timings
  • Broken meter
  • Poor optics
  • Tedious and expensive analog-digital conversion process
Enjoy!
04-05-2018, 08:25 AM   #7
Moderator
Not a Number's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 10,503
In addition to the above, if you have a Pentax DSLR you can use the K-mount lenses without an adapter. If there are any screwmount lenses in your friend's inventory there probably is an adapter included and you can use those as well.

04-05-2018, 08:26 AM   #8
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: May 2015
Location: Hampshire
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 892
QuoteOriginally posted by 24thNomad Quote
Hello there.

I've been a hobbyist for a few years now. I'm in my 20s and have only played around with digital cameras. A friend of mine is looking to sell off his Pentax Super Program and a slew of accessories and lenses for pretty cheap. I'm wondering if it is worth it. This is not so much about the gear itself but era the products came from. Are there benefits/lessons to gained from playing around with a film era camera when you're only experience is digital? I was excited by the prospect of learning something new (to me) and the fact I could acquire several old lens and accessories that could work with my K3-II. Just wanted to get some insight since many people here have doing this far longer than I have.

Thanks in advance for any insight you may have to offer!

If it is pretty cheap, go for it!
Obviously check out the operation of the camera body and lenses and insert some batteries (if needed) to check out the metering and shutter.
You do not list the lenses but I am assuming they are going to be "A" lenses that will work well with your K-3 and if not you will have stop down metering available by the green button.
Film photography, as already mentioned by other posters, can be a special experience, if not the best way of honing your skills, lots of possible failed images coming back a few days after shooting and their cost to develop and print should make you think.
I started with a M42 mount camera, shooting with B&W to facilitate cheaper home developing and printing on an old enlarger, a couple of flash guns linked by wire and thoroughly enjoyed the experience....but I am talking 40 years ago.

Last edited by Skodadriver; 04-05-2018 at 08:27 AM. Reason: Missed a word.
04-05-2018, 08:36 AM   #9
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: NoVA
Posts: 635
QuoteOriginally posted by CarlJF Quote
Outside of learning how things were done in the film era, there's nothing to learn or benefits from a film era camera if you want to improve your photography.

But you can have an idea of what is was to shoot slide with your K3-II. Set the camera in jpg only, select a picture mode, set the ISO at max 400, the WB to sunny, and keep these settings for the next 36 shots, no matter the situation. You can change these settings only after each 36 shots (you can use a 256MB or 512MB SD card). For each of these 36 shots, give 20$ to someone (film and developing weren't free). Use MF and only M, Av and Tv exposure modes. If you use a flash, you can only use it in manual mode. Shut down the back LCD, chimping is completely forbidden, you can only look at the pictures once they're downloaded to your computer, and you can look at them only 2-3 days after they were taken. No PP is possible, not even cropping. Enjoy!


You forgot to set the camera to high contrast, or move the tone curve end points in editing software to clip the histogram down to six stops (for slide film emulation) or 9 stops (for negative film emulation), with an S-shaped curve in between. The decision of where those points will be moved to must be made before taking the picture. What, can’t fit the scene’s histogram into that? Tough. Time to learn how to use grad filters (or colored filters for monochrome), and make decisions about which highlights or shadows you allow to go white or black.

The reason for the Zone System was to have a systematic way of deciding what scenery brightnesses end up as what tones on a print. Getting them all was never an option. About 11 stops was it for black and white (unless you use special developers like pyro), and less—often much less—for color. Predictable results with film require planning the process all the to the print before deciding on the exposure.

It’s wonderful discipline. But much of it was a response to constraints imposed by the film.

Rick “who still shoots film in large sizes, but who is realistic about it” Denney
04-05-2018, 08:48 AM - 2 Likes   #10
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
.a.t.'s Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: yesterday
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,261
QuoteOriginally posted by Ontarian50 Quote
. . .
I find the main enjoyment I get out of shooting film is the actual shooting experience. . .
Same here. More specifically, I really enjoy seeing the world through a large, bright optical viewfinder.

QuoteOriginally posted by 24thNomad Quote
. . .
A friend of mine is looking to sell off his Pentax Super Program and a slew of accessories and lenses for pretty cheap. . .
The Super Program's viewfinder is larger than your K-3 II's, and magnification will be noticeably greater. But for best VF coverage and magnification look for Pentax MX, ME or ME Super bodies.

Pentax Manual Focus Film SLRs - Pentax Pentax Film Cameras - Pentax Camera Reviews and Specifications


I no longer shoot film, but a couple times a year I put a fast 50 on my ME Super and just have a look around - purely for the enjoyment of that beautiful viewfinder.
All the digital viewfinders I've tried pale in comparison.

Last edited by .a.t.; 04-05-2018 at 09:19 AM. Reason: clarification
04-05-2018, 08:59 AM - 5 Likes   #11
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
Alex645's Avatar

Join Date: May 2015
Location: Kaneohe, HI
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,524
QuoteOriginally posted by CarlJF Quote
Outside of learning how things were done in the film era, there's nothing to learn or benefits from a film era camera if you want to improve your photography.
Wow. I teach both a film and a digital photo course in a high school. The ratio of students film: digital is approximately 1:4. About one fourth of all the students take both film and digital classes and itʻs about 50/50 which they take first.

I would agree that for probably half the students in the film class, there seems to have been "nothing to learn or benefits" from taking film "to improve" their digital photography and the same could be said for those taking digital before film. But for at least half, there are clear benefits to them and their photography for many of the reasons listed above.

Is there a benefit in doing anything analog with a linear process instead of digital with a non-linear process? I would argue they both have their pros and cons and for anyone passionate about photography, itʻs worth the experience....both for the positive and negative (no pun intended) aspects.
04-05-2018, 09:01 AM   #12
Forum Member




Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 66
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Skodadriver Quote
If it is pretty cheap, go for it!
Obviously check out the operation of the camera body and lenses and insert some batteries (if needed) to check out the metering and shutter.
You do not list the lenses but I am assuming they are going to be "A" lenses that will work well with your K-3 and if not you will have stop down metering available by the green button.
Film photography, as already mentioned by other posters, can be a special experience, if not the best way of honing your skills, lots of possible failed images coming back a few days after shooting and their cost to develop and print should make you think.
I started with a M42 mount camera, shooting with B&W to facilitate cheaper home developing and printing on an old enlarger, a couple of flash guns linked by wire and thoroughly enjoyed the experience....but I am talking 40 years ago.
To elaborate on what is being offered:

Pentax Super Pentax
SMC-A 50mm f/1.7
Phase 2 28mm f/2.8
Some other off brand 28-200 "Macro" f/4 to 5.6 (another super zoom is the last thing I need lol)
An external flash, some filters, bags, and a bunch of other accessories for about $100

Was most interested in the 50mm. What do you guys think?

Also thanks so much for the replies so far. There's a lot of valid points I never considered.
04-05-2018, 09:23 AM - 1 Like   #13
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
pres589's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Wichita, KS
Photos: Albums
Posts: 4,497
Lately there's been a near-daily debate about fast, vintage 50's, and that A 50 1.7 seems to get a lot of respect. Obviously there's sample variation, lens to lens, to be aware of. but so far, yeah, that's a nice 50.

Here's the reviews for that 28mm here on PF; CPC Phase 2 MC Auto 28mm F/2.8 Lens Reviews - Miscellaneous Lenses - Pentax Lens Review Database

Short version: It looks good as well.

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the 28-200 zoom is not very good. This is a wild assumption on my part and should be treated as such.

A Super Program in good working condition that doesn't need seals, an A 50 1.7, and a 3rd party 28 f2.8 that reviews well here, for $100 USD? You can sell that other stuff that you don't want for maybe $20 pretty easily I think (again, assumptions) here or elsewhere. So for $80, I think yeah, that's a pretty good deal. Others may chime in.

About shooting film, I'll echo what the others have already written here. I think it's good experience, you can't just "spray and pray" with film. It's costly and it's a hassle. I definitely spend more time framing the shot, and not taking shots that seemed okay until I saw them in the viewfinder, and realized that my composition just wasn't there enough to justify taking the picture. I got my first film negatives & scans back last night from shooting my first few rolls of film after a decade with digital... lazy focusing is not rewarded with this thing. I also need to learn about exposure, as many of the shots were under-exposed. But I really want to keep improving and I think film will help me do that.
04-05-2018, 09:27 AM - 1 Like   #14
Veteran Member
CarlJF's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Quebec City
Posts: 1,185
QuoteOriginally posted by Alex645 Quote
Is there a benefit in doing anything analog with a linear process instead of digital with a non-linear process? I would argue they both have their pros and cons and for anyone passionate about photography, itʻs worth the experience....both for the positive and negative (no pun intended) aspects.
And this is also my conclusion. I don't want to be misunderstood. I haven't say it could not be interesting to learn film photography, if only out of curiosity and to feel what it is/was like. If someone wants to try film just for the sake of learning it, why not, as anything else ? I just don't see any great lesson that could be learned on film that couldn't be learned on digital in a more efficient way.

It's somewhat similar to people working on antique cars. They don't do it to become better drivers, and knowledge learned is of limited practical use on a modern car. But there's nothing wrong if someone likes to work on these antiques if they like it and it makes them happy.

In the end, it depends on what the OP have in mind in terms of "benefits" and "lessons" to be learned.
04-05-2018, 09:29 AM - 2 Likes   #15
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
.a.t.'s Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: yesterday
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,261
QuoteOriginally posted by 24thNomad Quote
. . .
Was most interested in the 50mm. What do you guys think?

I think the A 50 f/1.7 is small, sharp, versatile and definitely worth owning for both film and digital.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
accessories, analogy, benefits to film, camera, car, color, composition, contrast, curve, depth, dr, era, exposure, ff, field, film, film era, flash, format, images, insight, mamiya rb, op, photo, photography, photos, scan, shots, sinar, vs
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
General discussion about 50-55mm lenses - film era. cieslikowski Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 3 05-06-2016 12:42 PM
How much did film bodies and film-era lenses originally cost? Outis Film SLRs and Compact Film Cameras 90 12-30-2015 01:19 AM
Film-era lenses on FF cameras utak Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 5 04-08-2013 02:26 AM
Film Era vs. Digital Era lenses for K-x steveknj Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 23 08-19-2011 05:36 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:18 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top