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04-17-2018, 10:14 AM   #1
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Weird problem... (not Pentax, but a film issue)

I recently got some films back from the lab I usually use. I had shot a roll of 120 format Tri-X on my Agfa Isolette II. On frame three, there are two oval spots (see image). These spots do not occur on any other frame. Any suggestions what may have caused them? Thanks, Kris.


odd problem par Kris Lockyear, on ipernity

04-17-2018, 10:19 AM   #2
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Are they visible on the negatives like that?
04-17-2018, 10:21 AM   #3
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Do you have frame counting windows on the back in these positions?

---------- Post added 04-17-18 at 06:26 PM ----------

actually looking online these only seem to have a single format and one window so my theory seems invalid
04-17-2018, 10:39 AM   #4
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They are visible on the negatives as clear spots. There is only a single red window for the frame number and that is centred.

Thanks, Kris.

04-17-2018, 11:03 AM   #5
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Looks a lot like a couple of air bubbles on the film during processing which made undeveloped spots.on the negative. Their positioning and the fact that there are only two is curious though.

Could be an emulsion defect on the original film stock. Can you post an enlargement of one of the spots?

Last edited by Bob 256; 04-17-2018 at 11:08 AM.
04-17-2018, 11:06 AM   #6
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Just guessing

As I have no idea about how to process film, coul it be possible the person who treated your film that dropped some kind of “liquid” on this particular negative and created a “burned effect” on it?

As you enlarge the picture, it looks like a “splash” of some kind as there’re microscopic spots around each circles.

Could that explain it?
04-17-2018, 12:45 PM   #7
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I would have to say, (and this is just a guess) that they are probably an emulsion defect. I've screwed up plenty of film during processing, but never had "bubbles" appear as symmetrical as what you have, and given they were on frame 3 and no other frames, negates a camera issue.

04-17-2018, 12:53 PM   #8
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Those spots look "fuzzy" around the edges as if from fibers. What does the lab say?


Steve
04-17-2018, 01:15 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Those spots look "fuzzy" around the edges as if from fibers. What does the lab say?


Steve
I haven't asked them yet. Only started looking at the images this evening. I'll email them tomorrow.

Thanks everyone.
04-17-2018, 01:33 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by womble Quote
I recently got some films back from the lab I usually use.
Does the lab hand process or machine process?

Clear areas on the negs that shouldnʻt be clear is a result of:

a) Defective emulsion from Kodak. Iʻve never seen that happen before with Kodak or Tri-X.
b) Lack of developer in those spots. Could be a bubble IF hand processed, but the shape of the mark is not like a bubble.
c) Fixer dropping on the emulsion before development. Highly unlikely, and if they were that sloppy, youʻd probably also see finger prints.

My best guess is that something internal to your camera, during that one exposure, fell onto the film and created a shadow. Iʻve seen this with insects in a camera or dust/foam bits, etc. When the film was advanced, the two offending bits rolled away with the film.

Look carefully inside your camera and see if there is anything in the light box that could be deteriorating. Itʻs only going to be something a few millimeters in diameter.
04-17-2018, 02:24 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Those spots look "fuzzy" around the edges as if from fibers. What does the lab say?


Steve
My thoughts exactly, like some of those felt dots for furniture.
04-17-2018, 03:20 PM   #12
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I'm not sure of the frame format, but assuming it's 645 or 6x6, they look like awfully big spots and seem to be centred and symmetrically at 1/3 & 2/3 across the format (as displayed). My first guess was a film wind-on window. My only other guess, if it was loaded on a reel, the two spots of the film may have come into contact with each other on neighbouring 'spirals', thus being deprived of developer (not enough agitation perhaps?).
04-17-2018, 05:38 PM   #13
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looks like bubbles to me. I used to tap the bottom of the can after each agitation. Back in the day(early 80's)
04-17-2018, 08:00 PM   #14
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The likelihood of two bubbles exactly the same side and perfectly centered seems unlikely. My guess is something mechanical caused this. May be a defect in the original film production or in development, but whatever touched there was manufactured.
04-17-2018, 08:54 PM   #15
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Look at the backing paper on the 120 Fuji Acros:
Kodak Tri-X 120 backing paper #s - Rangefinderforum.com
The paired circles look strikingly similar in size and placement to your circles, but doesnʻt make sense for 120 Tri-X. And even so if there was burn through, the spots would be white, not black on the print.
Your lab should be able to identify the cause as they see all sorts of anomalies.

There have also been some Kodak recalls on 120 TMax for how the backing paper ink was interacting with the emulsion. Apparently in manufacture the ink is not completely dry when the film is rolled so that the emulsion is somehow neutralized by the ink from the paper below it.

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/tmax400-120-watermark-defect-current-s...4/print?page=4

Last edited by Alex645; 04-17-2018 at 09:00 PM.
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