Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
05-06-2018, 11:53 AM   #1
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 505
UV/Haze filters

So most of the explanations why you shouldnít use a UV filter on your modern DSLR start off with the point that digital image sensors ďarenít sensitive to UV the way that film was.Ē

This of course begs the question, if I am shooting film do UV filters provide any optical benefit? What kinds of film, what kinds of subjects, in what conditions will I see this benefit? I thought the glass in the lens would likely filter most UV?

(Note: I want to avoid discussing the ďprotectionĒ argument. That always seems to be unproductive. My question is specifically optical benefits. Things that will improve my pictures.)

05-06-2018, 12:49 PM   #2
Forum Member




Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 87
UV light made film photos a bit bluer than you saw the scene, especially with transparency film. I expect the effect was more pronounced at higher altitudes, but I remember the difference when photographing on Kodachrome many moons ago. A Skylight 1B was preferred to a 1A, generally. Still got a couple of them stashed away somewhere with the Cromofilters from my M42 screwthread days.
05-06-2018, 01:04 PM   #3
Senior Member




Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Kent
Posts: 106
The glass in lenses does block some of the UV but not all of it and the bit that gets through can be enough to shift the colour balance, some old lenses that had elements cemented together with Canada Balsam block UV completely but more modern lens adhesive do pass UV. If you shine a UV torch (flashlight)through a lens then you can demonstrate this quite easily.

I have read that a UV filter is only needed at high altitude or at the seaside as that is when high levels of UV are most prevalent,but not sure about that.
05-06-2018, 03:27 PM   #4
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 505
Original Poster
My understanding is skylight is a bit bifferent. It’s a slight magenta colored filter UV was more about hazy images. But I’m guessing that some haze is really there and a filter probably won’t clean it up. I just got a new lens for my Pentax 67 and it came with the Pentax bayonet L39 (UV) filter. I figured I’d take it off and leave it in a box, but then I thought that maybe it really would be worthwhile to use.

05-06-2018, 04:11 PM - 2 Likes   #5
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Idaho
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 645
Skylight filters are a bit "pinkish" and UV are "yellowish". A UV filter will pretty much cut off everything below 380 nm since the yellow tint in the filter begins absorbing light around 420nm. The yellow is very subtle and can be easily compensated for if needed which is not often the case. DSLR cameras many, including Pentax, have a UV/IR reject filter built in which very sharply cuts off around 410 nm meaning the effects of a UV filter wouldn't be seen. The glass in most lenses will transmit UV down to 380 nm or lower so they could be benefited by the UV filter in film cameras, but little is to be gained for DSLRs other than front element protection which can be more beneficial than any UV blocking they do.

Note the horizontal scales on the attached bandpass spectra aren't aligned with each other and the scaling is different.
Attached Images
   

Last edited by Bob 256; 05-06-2018 at 04:34 PM.
05-06-2018, 05:11 PM   #6
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 505
Original Poster
interesting. I'm not sure how to read this, and I'm sure that I'd get it wrong if I try, but its interesting that density is trending upward at the UV end of the spectrum (spectral density for Fuji Velvia RVP50)
Attached Images
 
05-06-2018, 05:20 PM   #7
maw
Pentaxian
maw's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Sassari (Italy)
Posts: 465
QuoteOriginally posted by abruzzi Quote
So most of the explanations why you shouldn’t use a UV filter on your modern DSLR start off with the point that digital image sensors “aren’t sensitive to UV the way that film was.”

This of course begs the question, if I am shooting film do UV filters provide any optical benefit? What kinds of film, what kinds of subjects, in what conditions will I see this benefit? I thought the glass in the lens would likely filter most UV?
In short, filters 1A, 1B, Skylight, Warm, Neutral etc.. They have the practical effect of making filter manufacturers earn money.

With film they had a meaning, but now when you do the white balance they have no influence except to protect the front lens.

Another thing is the polarizer, the graduating, the infrared filters.

The concept is clear!
05-06-2018, 06:13 PM   #8
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
gofour3's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 5,873
QuoteOriginally posted by abruzzi Quote
My understanding is skylight is a bit different
Slide film likes skylight filters, so if you are shooting that type of film then I would get one. You can leave the filter on all the time, as it does what the UV filter does and also reduces blue in overcast/shady scenes.

I never shoot any E6 film without a skylight filter, unless I'm indoors. Pentax made them in various filter threads for their 6x7 lenses.

Phil.

05-06-2018, 06:33 PM   #9
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 505
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by maw Quote
With film they had a meaning, but now when you do the white balance they have no influence except to protect the front lens.
I think you’re missing the reason for this thread. I am shooting film, and your comment mirrors what I see all over the place, so I’m trying to get a sense what the benefit is for film and when I should use it (if ever)
05-06-2018, 08:30 PM   #10
dms
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: New York, NY
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,762
I don't usually use them, but at higher elevations a UV filter should reduce the haze caused by UV that registers at the blue end of film, on the other hand if you want the effect of haze--to more strongly suggest what is close and what is far away--then don't use it.

Skylight adjust for sky light (more blue) than sunlight**--thus it is a warming filter. If shooting slide you have less/no control on color temperature so the filter is needed. If you prefer a warmer look you can always use it (I don't). Also depending on the lighting (sky, vs all clouds, etc.) stronger warming than skylight may be desirable.

Finally/summary both color negative and slide can benefit from UV filter--if the bluish distance haze is the issue. Only slide really needs skylight--if there is mostly skylight, as color negative is more easily adjusted as part of scanning/printing.
_____
** Classic example--sun is blocked by a wall, but the blue sky is illuminating the blocked region. A photo that shows both sides of the wall will have a very blue cast for area only illuminated by sky. A skylight filter will fix the bluish cast, but the sun side will be too warm (amber/reddish)--but that is usually better/less noticeable.

BTW for B&W film the UV filter should still have the same/similar effect, but the skylight has virtually none.

Last edited by dms; 05-06-2018 at 08:44 PM. Reason: Added footnote, and latter comment on B&W film
05-06-2018, 10:09 PM   #11
Pentaxian
Alex645's Avatar

Join Date: May 2015
Location: Kaneohe, HI
Photos: Albums
Posts: 2,302
QuoteOriginally posted by abruzzi Quote
Iím trying to get a sense what the benefit is for film and when I should use it (if ever)
At one time, before the depletion of the ozone layer, UV was really only a concern at high altitudes. Today, even at sea level, the UV index is high.

I shoot black & white film often and using a UV filter helps to render blue skies the correct tonal value of grey. Without it, skies tend to be washed out on black and white prints (and overexposed on the negs).

However, I often use a yellow filter for B&W and donʻt need to and avoid stacking filters. For color film, I usually use a polarizer, but if not, a good multicoated UV is always used in daylight. Negs and higher ISO films are more forgiving than slides and lower ISO films.
05-06-2018, 10:42 PM   #12
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 505
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Alex645 Quote
I shoot black & white film often and using a UV filter helps to render blue skies the correct tonal value of grey. Without it, skies tend to be washed out on black and white prints (and overexposed on the negs).
My black and white skyís do usually wash out very easily. Iíve been looking into grad ND filters as an option (as well as yellow/orange/red). I live at 4000 feet and frequently travel up to 12000 ft (and rarely down), so Iím guessing I qualify as higher elevations. Weíll see once I have a chance to shoot some landscapes with the new 75 lens. Iíll leave the UV filter on it and see how my skies look.

Any idea if the original Pentax branded filters were good quality? Iím assuming they were pretty good quality.

Thanks for the comments.
05-06-2018, 11:46 PM   #13
Pentaxian
Alex645's Avatar

Join Date: May 2015
Location: Kaneohe, HI
Photos: Albums
Posts: 2,302
QuoteOriginally posted by abruzzi Quote
Any idea if the original Pentax branded filters were good quality? Iím assuming they were pretty good quality.
In my experience OEM filters are/were above average quality and price. The main thing you want to make sure is that it is multicoated and there are no de-lamination issues on older filters.

In the same way I often see people prioritize their budget on the camera and then skimp on the lens (should be the other way around), you donʻt want your worst element to be the filter degrading your optics.
05-07-2018, 07:26 AM   #14
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
gofour3's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 5,873
QuoteOriginally posted by abruzzi Quote
Any idea if the original Pentax branded filters were good quality? I’m assuming they were pretty good quality.
Yes they are very good but make sure you get the SMC version. Pentax filters also came in single coated versions and "SMC" is missing in the name.

Note some filters like the Pentax "Morning & Evening" only came in the single coated version.

Phil.
05-07-2018, 08:21 PM   #15
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: WA, USA
Posts: 499
QuoteOriginally posted by Bob 256 Quote
Skylight filters are a bit "pinkish" and UV are "yellowish". A UV filter will pretty much cut off everything below 380 nm since the yellow tint in the filter begins absorbing light around 420nm. The yellow is very subtle and can be easily compensated for if needed which is not often the case. DSLR cameras many, including Pentax, have a UV/IR reject filter built in which very sharply cuts off around 410 nm meaning the effects of a UV filter wouldn't be seen. The glass in most lenses will transmit UV down to 380 nm or lower so they could be benefited by the UV filter in film cameras, but little is to be gained for DSLRs other than front element protection which can be more beneficial than any UV blocking they do.

Note the horizontal scales on the attached bandpass spectra aren't aligned with each other and the scaling is different.
Thanks for the explanation. I wish filter makers explained all this. Few weeks ago I was trying to decide between "Clear" v/s "UV/Haze". Read the FAQ on B+W site and it was not helpful at all. Hiding information makes me doubt their integrity and also the claims they make about superior quality of their product.

Finally in a dogmatic style I purchased "Clear" filters.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
benefit, film, filter, filters, question, uv
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale - Sold: Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8 DC HSM Art w/Hoya SUPER HMC PRO1 Haze UV(0) - Filter comprock Sold Items 12 01-30-2017 01:33 PM
Light haze - is the bargain second hand lens with haze worth it? awscreo Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 7 11-05-2016 12:56 PM
To use UV filters or Not to use UV filters?HELP NEEDED Softsoap Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 6 02-20-2010 04:50 PM
Filters UV vs Haze 1 jonnyp Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 2 12-01-2009 04:20 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:22 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top