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06-04-2018, 03:30 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnha Quote
"... two straps may be used when security is paramount, e.g. when mountaineering...".
That's slightly insane. I'm sure there are heavier cameras than my 67 (RB67?) but it is a beast I wouldn't want to take mountaineering.

06-04-2018, 10:04 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentageek Quote
I second this. I had the same dilemma in the past, and I think you should decide whether you are going to use 645, or rather 67 (regardless actual make). Once you make your mind, it is going to be much easier to select the gear.

P.S. I decided to use Mamiya RB 67 for its rotating back and ability to change the film mid-roll.
I did think of going with mamiya, looked rb67 and rz67, but it was too big for me to take out and shoot. Then looked on mamiya 645 versions like 1000, pro tl version af, but found pentax 645/67 better for me.

---------- Post added 06-04-18 at 10:37 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by chickentender Quote
Yup.



Frankly, I think the 67 handles better, with the exception of film changes (though if you don't have a back pre-loaded at the ready and we're talking about actually loading the roll itself, then I'd actually say the 67 is a tad less "fiddly").
Coming from 35mm I realized I wouldn't use back change in between much.
Is it true film loading is not easy in 67?
QuoteOriginally posted by chickentender Quote
It's also actually only marginally heavier and it's total volume in space I can't imagine is much more if not nearly the same. The proportions are obviously far different. When you start adding glass things certainly change, but since I shoot both I wound up nearly always taking 67 lenses and swapping which is what eventually led me to simply ditch the 645 glass. And for some reason I actually *prefer* 67 glass on the 645's... it just feels more balanced and the lens barrel is closer to the bottom of the camera body - just feels natural to me until you get up to something like the 300mm (and *maybe* the 165).
I am OK with the weigh to an extent, I have used heavier dslr like d4, 35mm like f4s with small and long lenses.
I am exploring using the 67 lenses on 645n with an adapter, but tell me, as I'm used to shoot between, 23-50 in 35mm size, which lenses to look for if I have to start with.
Also, should I have to go for the late model smc or super-takumar lenses?
QuoteOriginally posted by chickentender Quote
They're really, once again, just drastically different in operation at every turn. I will say, that 10 frames sometimes feels limiting, so I'm always on the lookout for 220 deals.
I have to rely on 120 as no 220 in domestic market, I am comfortable with the 10 frames per roll against the quality of negatives I get.

QuoteOriginally posted by chickentender Quote
But beyond that, I really only choose the 645 when I'm at an event for quicker shots, or "less expensive" shot, as it were.
What is that "less expensive" thing, like?

---------- Post added 06-04-18 at 10:48 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by abruzzi Quote
Yeah, Iím also still contemplating a 645 camera just to get 15/16 frames on a roll, and depending on the camera, to get something a little more portable. Shooting film has really helped me slow down my process compared to digital, but itís still really easy to get to 10 and still think you want to take a few more shots.
I agree the 15/16 shots is good, but we get bigger negatives for 10 shots per roll.

---------- Post added 06-04-18 at 10:52 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by chickentender Quote
I'd like to augment my previous statement that the 67 handles better than the 645... I think that *now* after adding a custom right-side grip to my 67, and after shooting with the 67ii (which already has a right-hand grip). WithOUT a grip on these, the 645s do handle better. A barebones, sans grip 67 or 6x7 is a little awkward at first.

That said I personally *hate* the Pentax left-hand wooden-handled grip (with the flash mount). I find the camera even more awkward with one attached.
Some 35mm cameras I have shot has not proper hand grip (flat like 67) but am used to it.
But how difficult it is with 67?
67ii is expensive for me, looking on the late models of 67.

---------- Post added 06-04-18 at 11:02 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by johnha Quote
...When I finally found one, it has become my most used camera for anything but holiday photos (I hardy used my K-5 since buying it).
I know I can't use the 67 like a 35mm but is it a camera to be used in streets? I also shoot events where I have to be dynamic and take up the shot. I do shoot lots of street, besides.

QuoteOriginally posted by johnha Quote
...ten frames is usually enough before I want to change film stock for a different approach
I strongly agree!
06-05-2018, 12:58 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by i.vvra Quote
I am exploring using the 67 lenses on 645n with an adapter, but tell me, as I'm used to shoot between, 23-50 in 35mm size, which lenses to look for if I have to start with.
Also, should I have to go for the late model smc or super-takumar lenses?
The P6x7 lens equivalents (on a P6x7) are roughly: 45mm (6x7) = 22mm (135), 55mm = 28mm, 75mm = 35mm, the same lenses on a 645 are probably: 45mm (645) = 28mm (135 equivalent), 55mm = 35mm & 75mm = 50mm. As for early/late lenses, it doesn't really matter on film, if looking for a 645D or 645Z the later lenses may be better. Not all lenses some in different variants, most are marked Super-Multi-Coating or SMC.

QuoteOriginally posted by i.vvra Quote
Some 35mm cameras I have shot has not proper hand grip (flat like 67) but am used to it.
But how difficult it is with 67?
67ii is expensive for me, looking on the late models of 67.
They're all big cameras, once I got used to handling it (carefully at first), it hasn't been a problem for me. The lack of a right-hand grip is not a problem for me. The left-hand grip helps with carrying the camera with a big/long lens on it.

QuoteOriginally posted by i.vvra Quote
I know I can't use the 67 like a 35mm but is it a camera to be used in streets? I also shoot events where I have to be dynamic and take up the shot. I do shoot lots of street, besides.
It's a dynamic camera (remembering its manual everything), you can shoot at about 1 fps with the lever wind (although difficult to get the best out of it shooting this quickly). As for street, the WLF might help, but it's a big camera, capable of attracting a lot of attention and very loud...
06-05-2018, 04:45 AM - 1 Like   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by i.vvra Quote
Is it true film loading is not easy in 67?

I am exploring using the 67 lenses on 645n with an adapter, but tell me, as I'm used to shoot between, 23-50 in 35mm size, which lenses to look for if I have to start with.
Also, should I have to go for the late model smc or super-takumar lenses?

I have to rely on 120 as no 220 in domestic market, I am comfortable with the 10 frames per roll against the quality of negatives I get.
What is that "less expensive" thing, like?

Some 35mm cameras I have shot has not proper hand grip (flat like 67) but am used to it.
But how difficult it is with 67?
It's more difficult/time consuming than loading a 35mm cartridge, yes. But you get used to it. It's just 120 roll film and dealing with droping it in whilst lining up the spools and keeping the film taut.... at times you want 3 hands if you're in a hurry. 645 back-loading is similar, but in an entirely different way.

The lengths you're looking for are between 45mm or 55mm and 105mm. Just those two would cover you to start with. As far as Takumar versus later SMC models, there's often little difference aside from handling - in many cases the formula is the same. Some, like the 90mm are only available in late model. It's more a handling preference in terms of the focus barrel and updates in the coatings. I've both versions of the 105, and honestly I don't really prefer one over the other - they're both great.

When I said "expensive" I merely meant a shot that was in my shot list and called for, rather than a candid or impromptu moment. Spending 1 of 10 shots on a candid is most "costly" than spending 1 of 16 on that same shot. Every shot on the 67 costs a bit more because you've fewer of them.

There are plenty of after-market RIGHT-hand grips available for the 67. And I recommend them HEARTILY. They make the handling far, far better IMO. Without it, the extra weight and bulk, the simple fact that you can't get your hand all the way around it, just makes it a bit more awkward without a grip. It's something you can get used to, but the grips are not terribly expensive - I'd just pick on up. You'll see what I mean.
**Edit. Hmmm... there were plenty available when last I looked. No I'm not finding *any* at the moment. I'll look around. I bought my custom grip from Mark Kasper - not sure if he's still making them or not.

---------- Post added 06-05-18 at 05:05 AM ----------

This is the grip many people have. Contact directly via IG.
Photographer & Craftsman (@snapu) ? Instagram photos and videos

Mine is made by Mark Kasper who can be contacted via the Pentax 67 Facebook group. I don't know if he's still making them. I know he does so in batches.
I can't find a better photo of mine than this one (I know I've a shot of it somewhere), but this is what it looks like.



Last edited by Eyewanders; 06-05-2018 at 04:54 AM.
06-05-2018, 07:47 AM - 1 Like   #20
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I just ordered a right hand grip for mine from myoatmail@gmail.com. He was on hold for a months because he had run out of the base plates he used. He is taking orders again for about US$140 shipped.

As far as loading, the only difficult thing I have encountered loading film in the 67 is getting rolls out. It can be a little fiddly getting a grip on the roll while removing--there is not enough room to just tilt one end out like on some other 120 cameras so I end up pinching one of the flanges on the spool to lift it out. It does have the benefit of a basically straight film path. I don't know if its real or not, but you'll find some people online raising complaints about 120 cameras that have sharp bends in the film path having film flatness issues. You'll see these complaints about the Pentax 645 as well as Mamiyas and other similar cameras. On the other hand, if film flatness is a huge thing for you, there is a third party that makes an vacuum back for the 67 for astrophotography purposes.
06-05-2018, 10:52 AM - 1 Like   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by i.vvra Quote


I know I can't use the 67 like a 35mm but is it a camera to be used in streets? I also shoot events where I have to be dynamic and take up the shot. I do shoot lots of street, besides.

A 645 & 67 rangefinder makes for a decent film street camera. I've used a Mamiya 7II for that role and shoot my Fuji 6x9 handhold frequently and use it anywhere I can. I think I post just as many pictures with my medium format gear as those with small format gear. But the larger the format, the sooner you'll reach for a tripod and the less convenient it becomes. I'll shoot my Pentax 67 on the street too ( used with a WLF in lieu of a prism) but I don't reach for it as often as the rangefinders in that regard.
06-05-2018, 12:17 PM - 1 Like   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by abruzzi Quote
I just ordered a right hand grip for mine from myoatmail@gmail.com. He was on hold for a months because he had run out of the base plates he used. He is taking orders again for about US$140 shipped.

As far as loading, the only difficult thing I have encountered loading film in the 67 is getting rolls out. It can be a little fiddly getting a grip on the roll while removing--there is not enough room to just tilt one end out like on some other 120 cameras so I end up pinching one of the flanges on the spool to lift it out. It does have the benefit of a basically straight film path. I don't know if its real or not, but you'll find some people online raising complaints about 120 cameras that have sharp bends in the film path having film flatness issues. You'll see these complaints about the Pentax 645 as well as Mamiyas and other similar cameras. On the other hand, if film flatness is a huge thing for you, there is a third party that makes an vacuum back for the 67 for astrophotography purposes.
Yowser. That's a steep price, but the quality of them does look very good.

That's a good description of the load/unload. Film path issues and bent film is real - it can be an issue in many TLR cameras as well.... but it's really only a problem if you take a good while to finish a roll, e.g. if you leave it mid-roll sitting on a shelf and the film remains in that position, bent on the roller, for a quite some time.
06-05-2018, 03:20 PM - 1 Like   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by abruzzi Quote

As far as loading, the only difficult thing I have encountered loading film in the 67 is getting rolls out. It can be a little fiddly getting a grip on the roll while removing--there is not enough room to just tilt one end out like on some other 120 cameras so I end up pinching one of the flanges on the spool to lift it out.
If you hook your thumbnail on the underside of the upper flange and press upwards gently, then pull the spool release, the bottom of the spool will pop out and you can then easily remove the spool.

06-05-2018, 04:19 PM - 1 Like   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by i.vvra Quote
I know I can't use the 67 like a 35mm but is it a camera to be used in streets?
I also shoot events where I have to be dynamic and take up the shot. I do shoot lots of street, besides.

One Sunday morning when visiting B&H I saw an lone photographer with an 8 x 10 view camera set up on a tripod near the Lincoln Tunnel exit.

I suppose any type of camera - regardless of size - can be used for "street shooting"...

Chris
06-05-2018, 05:57 PM - 1 Like   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Swift1 Quote
If you hook your thumbnail on the underside of the upper flange and press upwards gently, then pull the spool release, the bottom of the spool will pop out and you can then easily remove the spool.
You just changed my life.
06-05-2018, 10:49 PM   #26
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I could see most of the answers lean towards Pentax 67 (few say 67 late model for not old mup).
06-06-2018, 04:41 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by i.vvra Quote
I could see most of the answers lean towards Pentax 67 (few say 67 late model for not old mup).
The original non-mirror-up 6x7s are reported to be less repairable than the 6x7 Mirror-ups or 67 (the 67ii is also often reported to be no longer repairable). The 6x7 Mirror-Up & 67 are essentially the same camera as far as I can tell - I have both (slightly different cosmetics but that's it).
06-06-2018, 07:29 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnha Quote
The original non-mirror-up 6x7s are reported to be less repairable than the 6x7 Mirror-ups or 67 (the 67ii is also often reported to be no longer repairable). The 6x7 Mirror-Up & 67 are essentially the same camera as far as I can tell - I have both (slightly different cosmetics but that's it).
I was about to say that I didn't think the non-MLU and MLU versions would be that different, but now that I stop and think about it it makes sense: not only would the mirror up mechanism need to be added, but the internals of the film advance aren't quite the same either.

(At least, I seem to recall being told that the MLU version only gets 20 frames on a roll of 220, as opposed to 21 on the non-MLU versions. Which would also explain why Eric needed to get a new gearing made for my non-MLU when I got him to CLA it.)

Last edited by g026r; 06-06-2018 at 10:17 AM.
06-06-2018, 07:37 AM - 1 Like   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnha Quote
The 6x7 Mirror-Up & 67 are essentially the same camera as far as I can tell - I have both (slightly different cosmetics but that's it).
It is slightly cosmetic, but also the shutter timings were made entirely electronic in the 67 as I understand, including the bulb mode (the one drawback if you do a lot of long exposures in terms of battery life), and the transport system was refined. In terms of usage, there's no difference at all.
06-06-2018, 01:41 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnha Quote
The original non-mirror-up 6x7s are reported to be less repairable than the 6x7 Mirror-ups or 67 (the 67ii is also often reported to be no longer repairable). The 6x7 Mirror-Up & 67 are essentially the same camera as far as I can tell - I have both (slightly different cosmetics but that's it).
I was looking into all the models of 67 and found the 6x7 with mirror up and ttl viewfinder is exactly same, at least externally, as 67 with mup and ttl.
Which one should I choose between 67 and a 6x7 with mup and ttl? I see the 67 are later manufact late, possibly latest mup, what others?
BTW, as far the price, 6x7 is bit cheaper than the 67.
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