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12-03-2018, 03:45 AM - 1 Like   #136
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Neverending debate

I come here to get away from the film haters.

If I weren't so cool I'd be tempted go over to the digital forums and tell those people they're all nuts and film is so superior...

Chris


Last edited by ChrisPlatt; 12-03-2018 at 04:23 AM.
12-03-2018, 04:54 AM   #137
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChrisPlatt Quote
I come here to get away from the film haters.

If I weren't so cool I'd be tempted go over to the digital forums and tell those people they're all nuts and film is so superior... ;
Film has it's own benefits, shoot it on a large enough format and you can continue to extract more information decades later. Space Odyssey (shot on 65mm film) has recently been re-scanned for 8K 50yrs after it's release:

Space Odyssey helps launch first 8K TV channel - BBC News
12-03-2018, 05:25 AM   #138
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How many film cameras do I have? Probably too many :P

Spotmatic F, adapted for normal batteries, works great with S-M-C Takumars.

Spotmatic II, with still working and reasonably accurate lightmeter. Bought because some of my M42 lenses won't mount on Spotmatic F.

Pentax Super A, with digital data back and motor drive. Works swell, except the motor drive seems to 'choke' a bit when nearing the end of the roll - that is, it doesn't wind all the way, and I have to manually push the lever. Anyone got a problem like this...?

Pentax K1000 SE in brown. Recently I had to service the shutter (1/1000 and 1/500 speeds didn't expose film), but it took around 40$, so no complains. Works pretty good now, but the lightmeter isn't accurate enough for slides I'm afraid. Bought because I wanted a K-mount body that could do without batteries (Super A doesn't) and because, you know, GAS.

Pentax MZ-S. Pretty much mint, works great. Bought because of a spot meter, controls familiar to the DSLR user and compatibility with P-TTL flash. Not sure if the meter is accurate enough for slides though. I recently shot a roll of new Ektrachrome and Tmax P3200. The Ektachrome turned out severely underexposed, but the B&W was fine. Maybe the lab that did the E6 screwed up, I dunno...

Ricoh TLS EE. Was intrigued by the feature that allowed open aperture metering with any M42 lens (and shutter priority with Rikenon EE ones). Unfortunately when the camera arrived, it turned out the meter was dead. So while mechanically camera works, I consider it a paperweight.

Recently I developed a crush on old Leicas, but I think I need to downsize my collection a little bit first.
12-03-2018, 07:55 AM   #139
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12-03-2018, 09:24 AM   #140
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fenwoodian Quote
I just don't get why people collect old film bodies.
Probably for the reason why people still ride and collect bicycles. Yes, I have friends with a dozen or more bikes in their "quiver" including a few antiques.

For me, part of the interest is that I shoot and enjoy shooting film; the rest is historical and the pleasure (or pain) in experiencing technological innovation first-hand and reaffirming that excellent work may still be extracted from gear made before this old man was born. (My oldest camera is a Mamiya Six folder made a few years before I was. Works as well as when it was new, which means quite well, thank you.) Yes, my cameras are all users.

There is a bit of a misconception that a "collection" of film cameras means a collection of "old" film cameras. My two newest cameras (Chamonix 4x5 and Voigtlander R3M) are still available new or, in the case of the R3M, new-old-stock. One can still spend a considerable amount* for the privilege of shooting other than digital.

QuoteOriginally posted by Fenwoodian Quote
What am I missing here?
Perhaps good results from your film work? That is not a snarky remark. Many users on this site owe digital media a huge debt of gratitude for allowing them to expand their skill sets in ways that would have been difficult in the past. I will confess to such in the areas of macro and action photography. That being said, my better 35mm film work is still easily enlargeable to 16x20 and is equivalent to my better 24 Mpx digital work. Perhaps both suck from a technical perspective, but I prefer to think not since I really enjoy working with both mediums. As for the medium and large format film work...I know the limits of my digital photography budget would be reached long before I could approach what I get with even a 6x6cm negative.

Getting back on-topic, surely you have one or two film cameras languishing in a sock drawer or in the attic that you might want to share about here?


Steve

* Entry ticket into current product film cameras (toy cameras excluded) is about $1000 USD for a Voigtlander R3M, body only. Yes, the price has gone up.

Last edited by stevebrot; 12-03-2018 at 11:16 AM. Reason: addendum
12-03-2018, 09:46 AM   #141
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote

* Entry ticket into current product film cameras (toy cameras excluded) is about $1000 USD for a Voigtlander R3M, body only. Yes, the price has gone up.

$1000 is cheap compared with some of the offerings from Leica which start at $5000. But then that is quite cheap compared with their digital offerings.
12-03-2018, 10:15 AM   #142
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fenwoodian Quote
.
I just don't get why people collect old film bodies.

What's the attraction of collecting old film cameras? Film is expensive to shoot/process/print. Film cameras do not have image quality that can hold up do the better digital cameras, and I do believe that their retail value is low (and probably going even lower in the future). What am I missing here?
Simple really. Just because your results from film are not as good as your results from digital does not mean it applies to anyone else.

BTW, you don't need to get it, unless you really feel the need to get it . . .

12-03-2018, 10:21 AM   #143
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
* Entry ticket into current product film cameras (toy cameras excluded) is about $1000 USD for a Voigtlander R3M, body only. Yes, the price has gone up.
Intrepid are selling their 4x5 Mk3 for £250 and their 8x10 for £480 for those interested in new LF cameras.
12-03-2018, 10:46 AM   #144
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnha Quote
Intrepid are selling their 4x5 Mk3 for £250 and their 8x10 for £480 for those interested in new LF cameras.
I was looking at those the other day--basically plywood large format. Of course the reason they can do that is there isn't much to large format camera body--most of it is in the lens.
12-03-2018, 10:49 AM - 3 Likes   #145
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fenwoodian Quote
.
I just don't get why people collect old film bodies.

... snip ...
There are actually two questions here, not necessary related. Firstly "why do people collect... " [insert item here]. The psychology of collecting is an interesting one. Almost anything and everything has someone who collects it: coins, stamps and china come to mind. Collecting is also something much more common amongst men than women, I don't know why. The urge to collect has a long history. Coin collecting goes back many centuries. As an archaeologist who studies coin data, I am in frequent company with coin collectors, but for myself I have never had the urge to collect ancient coins. As to Pentax stuff, I slowly fell into it. I had a modest ME Super and three lenses for many years. When the Super died I got an MX. It wasn't until about 2005 that I got an LX, and started buying other things. To start with, I was interested in the M series cameras and the differences, so I bought one of each type... I also became addicted to K series primes, and now have about 20 of those. Partly, the endless "Canon this" and "Canon that" led me to buy silly things like a Pentax hipflask and a Zoom 70R pin badge. I've expanded out of Pentax to shoot some Soviet rangefinders, a few old folders, and a couple of TLRs. I know that collecting these things is a bit silly, really. I have a pristine MV in its box with original packaging, receipt and paperwork. I've never shot with it (I prefer cameras with some sort of manual over-ride), but I like having it. Not logical, but at least it didn't cost anywhere as near as much as a denarius of Julius Caesar, and I could shoot with it if I wanted! (Try buying a beer with a Roman denarius...)


The other part of that question is why shoot film. That varies from photographer to photographer and is very personal. This year's winner of the Taylor-Wessing Portrait Prize uses a Pentax 67. She does so because she finds that her subjects (young South African "drummies") are fascinated by the huge camera and she gets better photos as a result. Other reasons have been given above. Personally, I shoot both. For work things, almost 100% digital. I need images for lectures, websites and publications. All those things are easier done digitally. Finds of small artefacts: much easier digitally. For fun, however, I shoot both. I know I am never going to be the next Ansel Adams. I occasionally have a picture I'm proud of, and I've had some published in magazines and won the odd prize or two. More important to me, personally, is to enjoy the process. When I was in New York a month ago I decided to shoot 100% film. I took two ME Supers (one black, one chrome) and a selection of K series primes (15, 17, 24, 28 shift, 30, 50/1.2, 135/2.5). I ordered film from B&H in advance. I spent my birthday wandering around lower Manhattan and had a lovely time. I enjoyed myself. I got some pictures I liked, and have proved popular with people I have shown them to. Am I going to win a prize with them? Nah... Do I care? No, not really. I really like using my 5x4 view camera but that doesn't used quite so much as it isn't easy to transport on a motorcycle. I've had some great images with my old folders. No light meter. No rangefinder. One of them takes coloured filters (whooo hooo!).

As to sharpness and resolution, the largest image I have ever had printed was taken with my K20D (at 21" x 14"). To be frank, even the K-3 creates files bigger than I need. I hate to think what the the file size of a pixel-shifted image from the K-1 is. I like to use raw files for the flexibility in editing, so I cannot simply select a lower resolution file. I ended-up buying a 3.57TB raid array for image files, and already I only have 1.7 left! I appreciate that some people may have need for enormous file sizes, but personally I would find a lower resolution full-frame digital an attractive proposition!

Luckily, we have a variety of options and we can choose what suits us. I appreciate that for many people film is not for them, but for some of us film is a viable and attractive alternative.

Kris.
12-03-2018, 10:54 AM   #146
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnha Quote
Intrepid are selling their 4x5 Mk3 for £250 and their 8x10 for £480 for those interested in new LF cameras.
Thanks! I forgot about the Intrepid. Like my Chamonix, the Intrepid's design is derived from the earlier and quite elegant cameras from R.H. Phillips & Sons and shares many of their advantages.


Steve
12-03-2018, 11:57 AM   #147
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Wanted to make a list of my film bodies, but had to stop it.
I cannot find at least half of the cameras I KNOW I still own - no idea where they are hiding.
12-03-2018, 12:01 PM   #148
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QuoteOriginally posted by womble Quote
buy silly things like a Pentax hipflask
I’d love to see that!
12-03-2018, 12:04 PM - 1 Like   #149
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QuoteOriginally posted by abruzzi Quote
I’d love to see that!

Hipflask (1) par Kris Lockyear, on ipernity


Hipflask (2) par Kris Lockyear, on ipernity

12-03-2018, 03:57 PM   #150
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QuoteOriginally posted by abruzzi Quote
I was looking at those the other day--basically plywood large format. Of course the reason they can do that is there isn't much to large format camera body--most of it is in the lens.
It's laminated marine plywood, doesn't look pretty but very resilient - they've made over 1,500 4x5s and over 500 8x10s in the last few years - making almost the whole camera & bellows themselves in Brighton. My original Kickstarter version is a bit rough around the edges, but their manufacturing is much more established now. If it breaks they fix & ship it free, if you break it they fix it for the price of shipping.
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