Concert tonight, Tri-X... what EI?

**bobbotron** · 09-13-2018, 06:03 AM

I'm going to a concert (David Byrne and Ani DiFranco) tonight, thought it'd be fun to take a K1000 and load some high speed film in it. All I have is Tri-X 400, I feel like this classic film is particularly fitting for the two artists. Concert is going to go into the night, trying to decide what EI to shoot the film at... 1600 or 3200. I've seen some surprisingly good results at 3200 online, and it's not a big deal if it doesn't work out.

Anyway, I think these Q's are fun - if it was you, what speed would you shoot the film at?

Edit: Apparently you can only bring "Personal cameras without removable lenses". Egh, darn it. Looks like plan B, my Petri Rangefinder is happening.

aaacb · 09-13-2018, 06:18 AM

What lens do you have? With good lighting on larger stages, I think iso 1600 or even 800 is enough for an f2 lens. If uncertain, I'd push to 3200 just to be safe. But keep in mind the meter will likely expose more than necessary, since the background is dark.

About camera policy, you can also call and confirm, it's happened to me just two days ago that the venue said the same, but at the door they confirmed there was no restriction... or try to explain that a film camera is too outdated etc

**UncleVanya** · 09-13-2018, 07:20 AM

What development is planned? I used to shoot tri-x at 3200 and it would get rather high contrast. 1600 gave better details if you wanted less super high contrast.

I can't recall but I think that was developed in dektol or d76.

dsmithhfx · 09-13-2018, 07:51 AM - **4 Likes**

Hmmm.

mtgmansf · 09-13-2018, 08:19 AM

Originally posted by bobbotron

I'm going to a concert (David Byrne and Ani DiFranco) tonight, thought it'd be fun to take a K1000 and load some high speed film in it. All I have is Tri-X 400, I feel like this classic film is particularly fitting for the two artists. Concert is going to go into the night, trying to decide what EI to shoot the film at... 1600 or 3200. I've seen some surprisingly good results at 3200 online, and it's not a big deal if it doesn't work out.

Anyway, I think these Q's are fun - if it was you, what speed would you shoot the film at?

Edit: Apparently you can only bring "Personal cameras without removable lenses". Egh, darn it. Looks like plan B, my Petri Rangefinder is happening.

Once you get there, that would be the time to figure out your iso based on the lighting on the stage - which will likely change during the show and performances anyway. I use to shoots concerts at 1600 asa, with 85mm,35mm or 50mm lenses at f2-f4, but if lights were good enough, I would do 800 asa. Use to use Fuji Neopan 1600 - a glorious and extinct film. If more than 1600 asa, I would use Kodak T-max 3200 occasionally. I think Fuji still makes a color negative 1600 iso film, and that is what I would probably use today, except for Tmax 3200 at 1600 or 3200. Honestly though, if you had a dual camera smartphone, you would likely get better shots doing a B&W conversion of images taken with that or keep it in color. Now that I think about it, stages seem to be better lit today than in the past - maybe just for smartphone snaps? In any case, the closer you get to the stage, the better your shots with a wide-angle rangefinder or smartphone...

**PWhite214** · 09-13-2018, 09:15 AM

I shot a roll of Tri-x at ISO 400, then +1 stop (800) then +2 (1600). Stand developed in a HC-110 clone 100:1 @ 68F 1 hour, I should repeat the test going up to plus 4.

[IMG]

[/IMG]

The negatives were scanned with an Epson scanner. No post processing,

This makes me think I could have gone as far as plus 4. I'll have to try it this week if I can make time.

Phil

tuco · 09-13-2018, 09:37 AM

Originally posted by dsmithhfx

Hmmm.

And that camera discrimination pisses me off. I've had to leave my film gear behind (fixed lens, wide angle no less) or not get into an event more than once. Yet everyone held up their phone camera an took pictures...

tuco · 09-13-2018, 09:52 AM

Originally posted by PWhite214

I shot a roll of Tri-x at ISO 400, then +1 stop (800) then +2 (1600). Stand developed in a HC-110 clone 100:1 @ 68F 1 hour, I should repeat the test going up to plus 4.
...
Phil

Looks good.

Kodak notes in their 400TX Data Sheet under Push Processing that it can be shot at EI 800 and developed normally and still get good results without push processing due to its latitude. So pushing it to 1600 is not a big push for this film.

**bobbotron** · 09-13-2018, 09:54 AM

Originally posted by aaacb

What lens do you have? With good lighting on larger stages, I think iso 1600 or even 800 is enough for an f2 lens. If uncertain, I'd push to 3200 just to be safe. But keep in mind the meter will likely expose more than necessary, since the background is dark.

About camera policy, you can also call and confirm, it's happened to me just two days ago that the venue said the same, but at the door they confirmed there was no restriction... or try to explain that a film camera is too outdated etc

I'm going to use the Petri, it goes down to 1.8 @ 45mm focal length. I have about a 0% interest in getting close to the stage, it'll be mostly for getting some fun photos of the crowd, my friends, etc.

I'm thinking 1600 is a good compromise.

---------- Post added 09-13-18 at 12:56 PM ----------

Originally posted by mtgmansf

Once you get there, that would be the time to figure out your iso based on the lighting on the stage.

That's a great point, thanks! Like I mentioned above, I don't really care about getting stage shots, more looking to get some fun crowd/friends shots.

---------- Post added 09-13-18 at 01:00 PM ----------

Originally posted by UncleVanya

What development is planned? I used to shoot tri-x at 3200 and it would get rather high contrast. 1600 gave better details if you wanted less super high contrast.

I can't recall but I think that was developed in dektol or d76.

I only ever keep rodinal on hand, so probably deving in rodinal 1+50. I've been enjoying dark room printing lately, so I'm looking forward to making some enlargements from it.

High contrast is cool, should fit the night well.

---------- Post added 09-13-18 at 01:02 PM ----------

Originally posted by tuco

And that camera discrimination pisses me off. I've had to leave my film gear behind (fixed lens, wide angle no less) or not get into an event more than once. Yet everyone held up their phone camera an took pictures...

Heh, yeah I don't feel that strongly about it today. It's pretty common around here. I'm guessing it's because people with big cameras made a nuisance of themselves one too many times.

---------- Post added 09-13-18 at 01:03 PM ----------

Originally posted by dsmithhfx

Hmmm.

Yikes. I would love to get a shot like this, from my Petri racer.

---------- Post added 09-13-18 at 01:03 PM ----------

(Clearly if I had a Ricoh GR film camera, I'd be taking it over the Petri, but you've gotta use what you have!)

dsmithhfx · 09-13-2018, 10:17 AM

Originally posted by bobbotron

Yikes. I would love to get a shot like this, from my Petri racer.

Yes and I wish I had one (or any film RF with a fast lens) -- unfortunately they all seem to be pricey now. Dunno if I'd bother with concert shooting though.

I can remember when they'd all be waving bic lighters, well before smartphones came along.

tuco · 09-13-2018, 10:18 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by bobbotron

Heh, yeah I don't feel that strongly about it today. It's pretty common around here. I'm guessing it's because people with big cameras made a nuisance of themselves one too many times.

How would you feel about being asked for your name, proof of your name, get your name recorded in a police log that day and finally questioned why you are taking pictures of, say, a public ferry boat on public property departing its terminal while those using a phone camera are not questioned at all?

Chris_K · 09-13-2018, 10:56 AM

Hi,

I once pushed Trix to iso 3200 and developed it in ID11 (D76) stock solution (no extra dilution). The resulting pictures were obviously grainy, but rather 'pleasant' than horrible (I went up to 18x24cm). In most of the pictures the contrast was acceptable, although I found in my notes to try 1:1 dilution of the developer next time in order to reduce the contrast a bit (but I have never tried it out). So it seems that pushing it up to 1600 is rather safe.
Of course, all beforementioned are quite subjective features and not everyone would like them, but when it comes to the concert photos, a bit more of contrast and grain can add up to the atmosphere.
regards,
Chris

**bobbotron** · 09-13-2018, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by tuco

How would you feel about being asked for your name, proof of your name, get your name recorded in a police log that day and finally questioned why you are taking pictures of, say, a public ferry boat on public property departing its terminal while those using a phone camera are not questioned at all?

I believe this to be a straw man argument, at least here in Canada. Concert venue == private property. Public place, I'd tell authority XYZ I'm in the right, and what was your badge number?

tuco · 09-13-2018, 11:25 AM

Originally posted by bobbotron

I believe this to be a straw man argument, at least here in Canada. Concert venue == private property. Public place, I'd tell authority XYZ I'm in the right, and what was your badge number?

Sure, private property is different. But in your case I suspect no matter how belligerent people with phone cameras could be they still would not ban them like presumably they did with the larger gear. So I'm still standing by my camera discrimination thing.

FYI, that scenario I described happen to me. Guilty until proven innocent is the mindset around here.

Vendee · 09-13-2018, 11:50 AM - **2 Likes**

Just gone through some of my negs of concerts I've shot at. First one is Tmax @ 800 and the second is Delta 3200@1600. It would have been my ME Super with M50 f1.7 lens. I found it best to pre-focus on a spot then hold my camera up above the heads, shoot and hope for the best

09-13-2018, 06:03 AM	#1
bobbotron Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Ottawa, ON Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,349	Concert tonight, Tri-X... what EI? I'm going to a concert (David Byrne and Ani DiFranco) tonight, thought it'd be fun to take a K1000 and load some high speed film in it. All I have is Tri-X 400, I feel like this classic film is particularly fitting for the two artists. Concert is going to go into the night, trying to decide what EI to shoot the film at... 1600 or 3200. I've seen some surprisingly good results at 3200 online, and it's not a big deal if it doesn't work out. Anyway, I think these Q's are fun - if it was you, what speed would you shoot the film at? Edit: Apparently you can only bring "Personal cameras without removable lenses". Egh, darn it. Looks like plan B, my Petri Rangefinder is happening.

09-13-2018, 07:20 AM	#3
UncleVanya Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2014 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 28,401	What development is planned? I used to shoot tri-x at 3200 and it would get rather high contrast. 1600 gave better details if you wanted less super high contrast. I can't recall but I think that was developed in dektol or d76. Last edited by UncleVanya; 09-13-2018 at 07:28 AM.

09-13-2018, 09:15 AM	#6
PWhite214 Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 82	I shot a roll of Tri-x at ISO 400, then +1 stop (800) then +2 (1600). Stand developed in a HC-110 clone 100:1 @ 68F 1 hour, I should repeat the test going up to plus 4. [IMG][/IMG] The negatives were scanned with an Epson scanner. No post processing, This makes me think I could have gone as far as plus 4. I'll have to try it this week if I can make time. Phil

09-13-2018, 10:56 AM	#12
Chris_K Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: Poland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,800	Hi, I once pushed Trix to iso 3200 and developed it in ID11 (D76) stock solution (no extra dilution). The resulting pictures were obviously grainy, but rather 'pleasant' than horrible (I went up to 18x24cm). In most of the pictures the contrast was acceptable, although I found in my notes to try 1:1 dilution of the developer next time in order to reduce the contrast a bit (but I have never tried it out). So it seems that pushing it up to 1600 is rather safe. Of course, all beforementioned are quite subjective features and not everyone would like them, but when it comes to the concert photos, a bit more of contrast and grain can add up to the atmosphere. regards, Chris Last edited by Chris_K; 09-13-2018 at 11:01 AM.

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09-13-2018, 06:18 AM	#2
aaacb Pentaxian Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,725	What lens do you have? With good lighting on larger stages, I think iso 1600 or even 800 is enough for an f2 lens. If uncertain, I'd push to 3200 just to be safe. But keep in mind the meter will likely expose more than necessary, since the background is dark. About camera policy, you can also call and confirm, it's happened to me just two days ago that the venue said the same, but at the door they confirmed there was no restriction... or try to explain that a film camera is too outdated etc

09-13-2018, 07:51 AM - 4 Likes	#4
dsmithhfx Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Toronto Posts: 5,146	Hmmm.

09-13-2018, 08:19 AM	#5
mtgmansf Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 321	Originally posted by bobbotron I'm going to a concert (David Byrne and Ani DiFranco) tonight, thought it'd be fun to take a K1000 and load some high speed film in it. All I have is Tri-X 400, I feel like this classic film is particularly fitting for the two artists. Concert is going to go into the night, trying to decide what EI to shoot the film at... 1600 or 3200. I've seen some surprisingly good results at 3200 online, and it's not a big deal if it doesn't work out. Anyway, I think these Q's are fun - if it was you, what speed would you shoot the film at? Edit: Apparently you can only bring "Personal cameras without removable lenses". Egh, darn it. Looks like plan B, my Petri Rangefinder is happening. Once you get there, that would be the time to figure out your iso based on the lighting on the stage - which will likely change during the show and performances anyway. I use to shoots concerts at 1600 asa, with 85mm,35mm or 50mm lenses at f2-f4, but if lights were good enough, I would do 800 asa. Use to use Fuji Neopan 1600 - a glorious and extinct film. If more than 1600 asa, I would use Kodak T-max 3200 occasionally. I think Fuji still makes a color negative 1600 iso film, and that is what I would probably use today, except for Tmax 3200 at 1600 or 3200. Honestly though, if you had a dual camera smartphone, you would likely get better shots doing a B&W conversion of images taken with that or keep it in color. Now that I think about it, stages seem to be better lit today than in the past - maybe just for smartphone snaps? In any case, the closer you get to the stage, the better your shots with a wide-angle rangefinder or smartphone...

09-13-2018, 09:37 AM	#7
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,026	Originally posted by dsmithhfx Hmmm. And that camera discrimination pisses me off. I've had to leave my film gear behind (fixed lens, wide angle no less) or not get into an event more than once. Yet everyone held up their phone camera an took pictures...

09-13-2018, 09:52 AM	#8
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,026	Originally posted by PWhite214 I shot a roll of Tri-x at ISO 400, then +1 stop (800) then +2 (1600). Stand developed in a HC-110 clone 100:1 @ 68F 1 hour, I should repeat the test going up to plus 4. ... Phil Looks good. Kodak notes in their 400TX Data Sheet under Push Processing that it can be shot at EI 800 and developed normally and still get good results without push processing due to its latitude. So pushing it to 1600 is not a big push for this film.

09-13-2018, 09:54 AM	#9
bobbotron Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Ottawa, ON Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,349 Original Poster	Originally posted by aaacb What lens do you have? With good lighting on larger stages, I think iso 1600 or even 800 is enough for an f2 lens. If uncertain, I'd push to 3200 just to be safe. But keep in mind the meter will likely expose more than necessary, since the background is dark. About camera policy, you can also call and confirm, it's happened to me just two days ago that the venue said the same, but at the door they confirmed there was no restriction... or try to explain that a film camera is too outdated etc I'm going to use the Petri, it goes down to 1.8 @ 45mm focal length. I have about a 0% interest in getting close to the stage, it'll be mostly for getting some fun photos of the crowd, my friends, etc. I'm thinking 1600 is a good compromise. ---------- Post added 09-13-18 at 12:56 PM ---------- Originally posted by mtgmansf Once you get there, that would be the time to figure out your iso based on the lighting on the stage. That's a great point, thanks! Like I mentioned above, I don't really care about getting stage shots, more looking to get some fun crowd/friends shots. ---------- Post added 09-13-18 at 01:00 PM ---------- Originally posted by UncleVanya What development is planned? I used to shoot tri-x at 3200 and it would get rather high contrast. 1600 gave better details if you wanted less super high contrast. I can't recall but I think that was developed in dektol or d76. I only ever keep rodinal on hand, so probably deving in rodinal 1+50. I've been enjoying dark room printing lately, so I'm looking forward to making some enlargements from it. High contrast is cool, should fit the night well. ---------- Post added 09-13-18 at 01:02 PM ---------- Originally posted by tuco And that camera discrimination pisses me off. I've had to leave my film gear behind (fixed lens, wide angle no less) or not get into an event more than once. Yet everyone held up their phone camera an took pictures... Heh, yeah I don't feel that strongly about it today. It's pretty common around here. I'm guessing it's because people with big cameras made a nuisance of themselves one too many times. ---------- Post added 09-13-18 at 01:03 PM ---------- Originally posted by dsmithhfx Hmmm. Yikes. I would love to get a shot like this, from my Petri racer. ---------- Post added 09-13-18 at 01:03 PM ---------- (Clearly if I had a Ricoh GR film camera, I'd be taking it over the Petri, but you've gotta use what you have!)

09-13-2018, 10:17 AM	#10
dsmithhfx Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Toronto Posts: 5,146	Originally posted by bobbotron Yikes. I would love to get a shot like this, from my Petri racer. Yes and I wish I had one (or any film RF with a fast lens) -- unfortunately they all seem to be pricey now. Dunno if I'd bother with concert shooting though. I can remember when they'd all be waving bic lighters, well before smartphones came along.

09-13-2018, 10:18 AM - 1 Like	#11
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,026	Originally posted by bobbotron Heh, yeah I don't feel that strongly about it today. It's pretty common around here. I'm guessing it's because people with big cameras made a nuisance of themselves one too many times. How would you feel about being asked for your name, proof of your name, get your name recorded in a police log that day and finally questioned why you are taking pictures of, say, a public ferry boat on public property departing its terminal while those using a phone camera are not questioned at all?

09-13-2018, 11:13 AM	#13
bobbotron Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Ottawa, ON Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,349 Original Poster	Originally posted by tuco How would you feel about being asked for your name, proof of your name, get your name recorded in a police log that day and finally questioned why you are taking pictures of, say, a public ferry boat on public property departing its terminal while those using a phone camera are not questioned at all? I believe this to be a straw man argument, at least here in Canada. Concert venue == private property. Public place, I'd tell authority XYZ I'm in the right, and what was your badge number?

09-13-2018, 11:25 AM	#14
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,026	Originally posted by bobbotron I believe this to be a straw man argument, at least here in Canada. Concert venue == private property. Public place, I'd tell authority XYZ I'm in the right, and what was your badge number? Sure, private property is different. But in your case I suspect no matter how belligerent people with phone cameras could be they still would not ban them like presumably they did with the larger gear. So I'm still standing by my camera discrimination thing. FYI, that scenario I described happen to me. Guilty until proven innocent is the mindset around here.

09-13-2018, 11:50 AM - 2 Likes	#15
Vendee Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Norfolk, UK Posts: 1,134	Just gone through some of my negs of concerts I've shot at. First one is Tmax @ 800 and the second is Delta 3200@1600. It would have been my ME Super with M50 f1.7 lens. I found it best to pre-focus on a spot then hold my camera up above the heads, shoot and hope for the best