[boriscleto]

Staff note: This post may contain affiliate links, which means Pentax Forums may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. If you would like to support the forum directly, you may also make a donation here.

---

There was a kickstarter recently for a new film SLR that was completely mechanical and simple. It was something like $1200 (with a choice of mount). That’s frankly absurd.

I think maybe you're combining kickstarters...

There is the Reflex project, a modular SLR with multiple mounts. There were three full camera packages starting at £350. It was supposed to ship this year, but the realities of design and manufacturing have pushed it back (as almost always happens with kickstarter projects). (The only sample photos available were terrible and had light leaks)

Then there was the "Ihagee Elbaflex", a Kickstarter that failed (And the company, Net SE, also behind the "Meyer Optic" lenses, has gone bankrupt). It was just a Kiev 19M with no light meter and a wooden grip. It was going to sell for over $1000...

[Ediz7531]

I'm one of those folks who grew up with digital and only discovered film recently (Note: I'm not a hipster!).
I now own a few Pentax bodies, but this collection does not include a K1000. I knew nothing about Pentax film bodies one year ago to be honest, but when I started doing research on this, time and time again on my google searching the top ranked suggestions were articles like this one:

Analog gems: 10 excellent, affordable film cameras: Digital Photography Review

or this one

The Best Film Cameras You Can Buy Today | Time

which mention the K1000 and no other Pentax body, and label it as the "camera to learn to shoot film with". So perhaps the relatively higher prices over the MX, the Spotmatics, or the mechanical-perfection beautiful SV (no bias here, of course) is related to the above.

Ed

[Ontarian50]

Actually, I think it's great that people are starting to appreciate classic film cameras better and are willing to pay for good examples. Ten years ago, it was a crime to hear some guy say "I picked up this nice F3 for only $80". Supply and demand, of course, and there were far more people trying to dump their obsolete film cameras at any price. It was a buyer's market.

Now the tables have turned a bit, and it's getting harder to find good condition, complete cameras (ie: ones that haven't had their lenses poached by mirrorless guys for their adapters). Locally, I find no one really wants the '90s plastic SLRs - they just look like digital bodies without the digital. Classic, retro-styled cameras, with traditional knobs and dial are still the best way to learn photography - and you get fewer people haggling over the price of a good condition AE-1, FE, or K-1000 that's had a recent CLA.

After all, they don't make them any more.

As for the K-1000 specifically - it's a classic that Pentax got totally right back in 1976. A super-simple manual SLR that every photography instructor was happy to see in the hands of their students. No extra buttons or controls that weren't needed (although a DOF would have been nice), and the knowledge that every photo required a shutter speed, aperture, and focusing. Wind and click.

Unfortunately for Pentax, they suffered a bit for the K-1000. It was their Volkwagen Beetle. Too many perceived Pentax as a starter camera, and went to other brands when they graduated - ignoring the MX, LX, etc. etc.

But nostalgia is a mighty force. Look at what the price of a nice condition classic Beetle costs these days, compared to 20 or 30 years ago!

[abruzzi]

But nostalgia is a mighty force. Look at what the price of a nice condition classic Beetle costs these days, compared to 20 or 30 years ago!

As a former VW aficionado, now priced out of the market, the busses are the ones that have gone crazy. I sold a bus for $500 in 1995 that would easily fetch $50k today.

[Lord Lucan]

As for the K-1000 specifically - it's a classic that Pentax got totally right back in 1976. A super-simple manual SLR that every photography instructor was happy to see in the hands of their students. No extra buttons or controls that weren't needed (although a DOF would have been nice)

Well, with the DoF, you have just described the Pentax KM of 1975, which with a self-timer as well, was otherwise almost identical to the K1000. I cannot help wondering if Pentax had kept making the KM instead of replacing it with the K1000 (with no technical advantage over the KM, only some disavantages), the KM would have been a similar or even better commercial success. Or they could have relaunched the KM in 1976 or 7 as the K1000+ ; the "something-1000" was an established naming convention with Pentax.

.... and the knowledge that every photo required a shutter speed, aperture, and focusing. Wind and click.

... which describes the vast majority of cameras before 1980, and many after. Hence the mystery that the original poster mentioned - why does the K1000 attract such a higher price than those others?

Unfortunately for Pentax, they suffered a bit for the K-1000. It was their Volkwagen Beetle. Too many perceived Pentax as a starter camera, and went to other brands when they graduated - ignoring the MX, LX, etc. etc.

I think there is a lot in that.

[boriscleto]

Well, with the DoF, you have just described the Pentax KM of 1975, which with a self-timer as well, was otherwise almost identical to the K1000. I cannot help wondering if Pentax had kept making the KM instead of replacing it with the K1000 (with no technical advantage over the KM, only some disavantages), the KM would have been a similar or even better commercial success. Or they could have relaunched the KM in 1976 or 7 as the K1000+ ; the "something-1000" was an established naming convention with Pentax.
.

There was no advantage to Asahi to continue to produce the KM instead of the K1000. The K1000 was always intended to be a bare bones low end camera and was the first Asahi camera to be assembled outside of Japan. It was not even an immediate success. It really only became the "student camera" after all the other major camera makers went electronic in the 1980s.

[Ontarian50]

As for hopes that a new manufacturer will bring back the K-1000, or something like it, it's hard to see how it will be economically possible.

When I got into photography, around 1980, the K-1000 was selling for about $200 - about the same as the Minolta SR-T 200, Canon TX, Yashica FX-3 etc. By the mid '90s, all those other mechanical, metal cameras had disappeared, except the K-1000 was still around (although in the China-made, plastic top and bottom version). Locally, I saw it advertised at $499. Yikes!

For the same money you could buy a Canon Rebel with auto load and wind, several auto exposure modes, auto focus, and a built-in flash. On the face of it, the K-1000 didn't look like a good deal.

And if you had to have a simple manual SLR, the Cosina-made Yashica FX-3 super was available for around $399. That camera later morphed into the Nikon FM-10, the Olympus OM-2000 etc. But they didn't have the build quality of the older K-1000s, to be sure.

For any manufacturer to tool up and make a mechanical shutter, a mechanical SLR mirror system, a glass prism, and all the other bits and pieces needed to replicate what was commonplace in the 1960s (the K-1000 was really just a Spotmatic with a K mount), it's hard to see it selling for less than the $1,200 others have predicted.

The only way to make that fly is by going after the carriage trade, and make it with sterling silver knobs and buttons, ostrich skin leather covers, and interchangeable mounts for Leica R, Nikon F, Contax, and maybe Pentax K.

Or go after the hipster crowd and convince them the hemp fibre covers, and the baseplate made from plastics collected from the Pacific gyre, justify the price.

[dsmithhfx]

As for hopes that a new manufacturer will bring back the K-1000, or something like it, it's hard to see how it will be economically possible.

When I got into photography, around 1980, the K-1000 was selling for about $200 - about the same as the Minolta SR-T 200, Canon TX, Yashica FX-3 etc. By the mid '90s, all those other mechanical, metal cameras had disappeared, except the K-1000 was still around (although in the China-made, plastic top and bottom version). Locally, I saw it advertised at $499. Yikes!

For the same money you could buy a Canon Rebel with auto load and wind, several auto exposure modes, auto focus, and a built-in flash. On the face of it, the K-1000 didn't look like a good deal.

And if you had to have a simple manual SLR, the Cosina-made Yashica FX-3 super was available for around $399. That camera later morphed into the Nikon FM-10, the Olympus OM-2000 etc. But they didn't have the build quality of the older K-1000s, to be sure.

For any manufacturer to tool up and make a mechanical shutter, a mechanical SLR mirror system, a glass prism, and all the other bits and pieces needed to replicate what was commonplace in the 1960s (the K-1000 was really just a Spotmatic with a K mount), it's hard to see it selling for less than the $1,200 others have predicted.

The only way to make that fly is by going after the carriage trade, and make it with sterling silver knobs and buttons, ostrich skin leather covers, and interchangeable mounts for Leica R, Nikon F, Contax, and maybe Pentax K.

Or go after the hipster crowd and convince them the hemp fibre covers, and the baseplate made from plastics collected from the Pacific gyre, justify the price.

The Cosina-Voigtlander m42-mount "Bessaflex" was the last all-mechanical SLR to be made, in 2003:

Voigtlander Bessaflex TM


I could kick myself when after they were discontinued a few years later (no doubt due to lack of demand), cameraquest.com sold off the remaining stock @ US$100 each, and I foolishly passed on it, thinking they would go even lower.

Well, maybe they could have been purchased used for a few years at a a lower price. Ha! Try US$480...

https://www.ebay.com/p/Voigtl%C3%A4nder-Bessaflex-TM-Film-Camera-Body-Only/80824331


I guess I'll have to make do with my vintage Spotmatic SP and Argus-Cosina STL1000, both of which are showing their age...

[tvdtvdtvd]

Why do I get the impression on forums like these that whenever people are talking about 'hipsters' they really just mean young people shooting film?

'They' might be, but I don't, at least not necessarily. In fact, I know quite a few old hipsters, though I believe younger
folk are more likely to be hip. A hipster is very likely, (but not always), young and a youngster is often hip, though
just as often not, (depends who's circle of friends is defining hipness).

It's also important for me to say that I don't necessarily consider the term 'hipster' to be derogatory, nor am I using
it as such. I live in a part of the country that defined the current image of a 'hipster'. I knew hipsters who were
hipsters before the term hipsters was coined. As such, I view and use the term hipster as a modern variant of
'cool' and/or 'trendy', though admittedly 'hipster' in its strictest since defines a tighter demographic. Loosely applied,
'hipster' has come to be as vague as 'cool' or 'trendy'. And whether you're cool, trendy or hip(ster), you're more
likely young than old if you identify or other's identify you as such.

An amusing anecdote. A few years ago I was chatting with a group of fellow artists. One of them accused me of
being a hipster. Another artist, (more astute, IMO), countered by saying "He isn't a hipster, he's the guy the hipsters
are trying to emulate". I took that as a compliment, but also as a very clear indication that I was no longer young.

[tvdtvdtvd]

Well I'm confused, but I must be behind the curve as I cannot imagine why anyone would think the K1000 was hip, it is just an OK basic camera. However, as it is so much the fashion to take selfies, you might think that a camera with no self-timer would hardly be a hipster's first choice.

Who said being hip had anything to do with being sensible? Why do women wear high heels? Why do people who live in
small apartments in big, congested cities buy full sized, extended cab pickups?

[boriscleto]

Why do people who live in small apartments in big, congested cities buy full sized, extended cab pickups?

Why does anybody who isn't a farmer or contractor buy a full sized pickup?

[bullet308]

Why does anybody who isn't a farmer or contractor buy a full sized pickup?

Much less a duly with a diesel engine...No fifth wheel, no evidence of use of the trailer hitch socket...madness...

[Alex645]

Why does anybody who isn't a farmer or contractor buy a full sized pickup?

Image (status, looks, machismo, etc)

Why does anybody who isn't a pro photographer buy a MF or FF camera?

Image (status, looks, machismo, etc)

[ctrout]

Why does anybody who isn't a farmer or contractor buy a full sized pickup?

You must not live anywhere near the mountain west. Some of us buy them because a 900 pound elk doesn't fit very easily into the back of a Prius.

[johnha]

Given that the K1000 was priced at £199 in the mid-80's, has a proven track record of longevity (both production & reliability) and is fully mechanical, I don't feel they're overpriced (extrapolate £199 30yrs on and even allowing for a CLA) you're getting a great camera. I can see why they're more popular (better known?) than the KM & KX - many more made for a much longer period and I can see why they're better known than the MX. Having had to have a KX repaired (dodgy metering switch & ISO dial), I can see why a simpler camera is easier to maintain and intrinsically more reliable (clockwork self-timers are extraordinarily complicated and mechanically expensive to build while likely to be a failure point in 40yr old cameras). The K mount and readily available batteries make it a more sensible choice than a Spotmatic for many people.

Newbie amateur film photographers and hipsters have done a lot for film photography - expanding it's recognition to a whole new generation can only be a positive step whatever their motives are. Older hipsters have arguably more to gain - they can hide their hipster-nes by pointing to the old K1000 on the shelf and proclaiming "oh that old thing - had it since high school, never felt the need to change it". If it can promote Pentax for a new generation, that can only be a good thing.

If Pentax were ever to do an Olympus OM style mirror-less contraption, they could do far worse than style it like a K1000 - but many of use would be aghast at the thought...