[Baard-Einar]

Hello forum,

As a collector of Pentax cameras for many years I have always been searching for a black AP to add to my collection. The past months several black versions of the AP and K has been for sale via eBay. Today another one came to my attention. The seller is marking them as repainted.

The camera for sale on eBay today showed off a Takumar 35mm f4 with a black colored aperture ring. That lens never came in black. That made me wonder. And then I recall another sale a while ago with a black painted Takumar 58mm f2.4 which I also never have seen or heard of. I therefore sent the seller a message asking what "repaint" means. And the answer came back quick, it is a chrome body painted black by a "camera craftsman".

Question to the forum: is it ok to paint a chrome body black, and charge 4x-8x more for that body compared to a chrome version and how can we distinguish the original factory painted blacks from the repainted?

The photo is from the eBay add.


Cheers, Baard-Einar.

Attached Images

 

[LesDMess]

I suppose it depends on the quality of the repaint. The honest representation is commendable.

[sergysergy]

It looks very beautiful but I think I would look for the real thing instead. At least the seller seems to be honest.

[womble]

People pay more for black so I guess it makes economic sense in a way. At least the seller has come clean about it. If they were trying to pass off painted cameras as original black models, that would be fraud! Without seeing a painted one "in the flesh", its hard to say how convincing it would be close-up.

Someone I know had a bunch of yellow roses sent to her by her husband for her birthday. As she wasn't in when they came, we put them in her office. Walking by, I could smell solvent. When I looked, the roses were white ones spray-painted yellow... That struck me as a step too far!

K.

[Baard-Einar]

I think the seller should've written very clearly in the ad that it was a chrome body painted black.
One detail that stood out from the original was the colour of the R on the rewind button and the colour of the ASA-text. It looked a bit too red. But it seems to be well done, and I do like the fact that the seller is honest.

---------- Post added 10-09-2018 at 09:34 PM ----------

Someone I know had a bunch of yellow roses sent to her by her husband for her birthday. As she wasn't in when they came, we put them in her office. Walking by, I could smell solvent. When I looked, the roses were white ones spray-painted yellow... That struck me as a step too far!

K.

A bit to far.. Like painting a black horse white or vice versa.

[monochrome]

Before I collected cameras I collected embroidered patches. At one time I had a patch that could be faked into a rarer patch worth 20x more money with a black permanent marker. So I had one of 125 patches loomed in 1933 that had almost been made worthless by the explosion of fakes. Thankfully we (a collectos’ society) were able to obtain the original loom pattern and identify a non-alterable identifier, so collectors’ ability to distinguish Real from fake was preserved.

As a display item only it feels OK to repaint chrome cameras black so long as there is a non-falsifiable characteristic to distinguish originals from repainted.

[Swift1]

I think it's not uncommon to run across these types of cameras, especially from Japanese sellers. I don't think there is anything shady being done or attempted. There are specialty shop that do very high quality repainting, and a lot of the extra cost is simply the not insignificant cost of the repaint job.
AFAIK, among the sellers and buyers interested in this gear, the term "repaint" means it was a chrome camera repainted black.

[turbof]

If you are buying as a collector, I would wait for a real black paint camera. If you just want a black AP/K you
could buy a chrome version and repaint or have it repainted for a lot cheaper than what is selling on the 'bay.
These cameras are easy to disassemble (no electronics). Tell-tell signs will be the back hinge will still be chrome. If you have decent repair skills you can get a body that needs repair for very good prices. And be paitient. I got a black S with the unheard of 55mm f 1.8 preset Takumar for $165.00, but I had to replace the shutter curtains.

[Baard-Einar]

.. I got a black S with the unheard of 55mm f 1.8 preset Takumar for $165.00, but I had to replace the shutter curtains.

Really? That is so cool. I've only seen one for sale with that lens. Was it a long time ago?

[Kim Coxon]

Hello forum,

As a collector of Pentax cameras for many years I have always been searching for a black AP to add to my collection. The past months several black versions of the AP and K has been for sale via eBay. Today another one came to my attention. The seller is marking them as repainted.

The camera for sale on eBay today showed off a Takumar 35mm f4 with a black colored aperture ring. That lens never came in black. That made me wonder. And then I recall another sale a while ago with a black painted Takumar 58mm f2.4 which I also never have seen or heard of. I therefore sent the seller a message asking what "repaint" means. And the answer came back quick, it is a chrome body painted black by a "camera craftsman".

Question to the forum: is it ok to paint a chrome body black, and charge 4x-8x more for that body compared to a chrome version and how can we distinguish the original factory painted blacks from the repainted?

The photo is from the eBay add.


Cheers, Baard-Einar.

The short answer is no. There are 2 people I know who can "convert" a chrome camera to black paint but it costs a great deal of money and is very specialized. Basically all the chroming has to be etched off first and then the paint work has to be top rate. Otherwise, if you paint the chrome itself, it will peel off in a very short time.

---------- Post added 10-12-18 at 03:08 PM ----------

People pay more for black so I guess it makes economic sense in a way. At least the seller has come clean about it. If they were trying to pass off painted cameras as original black models, that would be fraud! Without seeing a painted one "in the flesh", its hard to say how convincing it would be close-up.

Someone I know had a bunch of yellow roses sent to her by her husband for her birthday. As she wasn't in when they came, we put them in her office. Walking by, I could smell solvent. When I looked, the roses were white ones spray-painted yellow... That struck me as a step too far!

K.

One time we were expecting a visit from the Queen. In true military fashion everything was "spruced up" including refreshing the paint on the white kerbstones. Unfortunately, the workman employed also managed to get white paint on the grass. So then someone else had to come along and paint the grass green.

[Moe49]

I am going to post here side by side photos of my 3 Pentax APs.

Black - unrestored
Chrome - unrestored
Black - restored & repainted, from the same Japanese Seller as the camera in post #1.

You can look at these photos and judge for yourself if you think the repainted Black AP might have been Chrome originally(?)

edit 10/16/2018:
I was just thinking an easy test would be to remove the bottom plate of the repainted Black AP to see if the inside is brass or steel.
A brass bottom plate should be evidence the camera has always been Black.

edit 10/23/2018:
Well, removing the bottom plates off the two black APs proved non-conclusive. Both bottom plates are painted flat black on the inside.
Also, both bottom plates are non-ferrous, not magnetic.

[RobA_Oz]

A black chrome finish would be more durable, easily identifiable, and probably no more expensive than conventional re-chroming. It would be good to have that finish on the metal body parts of new cameras. I don’t know if it can be applied to the plastics used for other parts, given that some plastics can be chrome-plated.

[turbof]

Really? That is so cool. I've only seen one for sale with that lens. Was it a long time ago?

I got it in 2013. It was listed as parts only.Sorry for the delayed answer. Michael took me offline, just got power back.

[Kim Coxon]

I am going to post here side by side photos of my 3 Pentax APs.

Black - unrestored
Chrome - unrestored
Black - restored & repainted, from the same Japanese Seller as the camera in post #1.

You can look at these photos and judge for yourself if you think the repainted Black AP might have been Chrome originally(?)

edit:
I was just thinking an easy test would be to remove the bottom plate of the repainted Black AP to see if the inside is brass or steel.
A brass bottom plate should be evidence the camera has always been Black.

Not true. See the attached pic of the M3 I had "converted to black". The first part of the process was to remove all the "chrome". If not, the paint won't adhere properly and it won't wear like a black one should. If the repaint is a good one, then that should have been done.

[RobA_Oz]

Not true. See the attached pic of the M3 I had "converted to black". The first part of the process was to remove all the "chrome". If not, the paint won't adhere properly and it won't wear like a black one should. If the repaint is a good one, then that should have been done.

Would not an etching primer be satisfactory, rather than grinding or chemically removing the chrome? The satin chrome finish on older film cameras isn’t like the shiny automotive and other highly polished chrome plating finishes, so I’d think it wasn’t as difficult to paint over (and you can paint over shining chrome, with an etching primer base). I haven’t had it done, myself, so I’m wondering if you know.