[Ediz7531]

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Howdy,

Just curious, what would have been the main competition for the Pentax SV during the time it was manufactured? The Nikon F, or the Nikkormat FS perhaps?
This camera is incredible. The tactile satisfaction it offers is unmatched by the other Pentax film cameras I've handled so far (SP F, MX, and even the LX). I'd like to learn a little bit more about the historical context around it.

Cheers,

Ed

[stevebrot]

The main competition was the Spotmatic, strangely enough. The lifespans of the two models were, for the most part, coincident while the SV was offered. Other than that, the list would have included various non-metered models from Praktica, Minolta, Topcon, Nikon, Exakta, etc. Pentax was popular, but not dominant and similar cameras were the norm. Strange as it might seem, the M42 mount was commonly referred to as Praktica/Pentax (not the other way around) in the late 1960s when I was getting started.

Addendum: While size, weight, and handling were standout features of the SV when it was released, the main marketing points were:

• Full range of shutter speeds (1-1/1000s + B and T) on a single dial
• M42 mount, including actuator for auto-aperture lenses
• Self-timer (new for Pentax line)
• Available coupled external meter
• X sync at 1/50s as well as support for FP sync

Steve

[Ontarian50]

The main competition was the Spotmatic, strangely enough. The lifespans of the two models were, for the most part, coincident while the SV was offered. Other than that, the list would have included various non-metered models from Praktica, Minolta, Topcon, Nikon, Exakta, etc. Pentax was popular, but not dominant and similar cameras were the norm. Strange as it might seem, the M42 mount was commonly referred to as Praktica/Pentax (not the other way around) in the late 1960s when I was getting started.

Yes, the M42 mount originated in East Germany with the "Contax" S - which was actually made by what evolved into Pentacon/Praktica. It's interesting that Asahi decided to abandon their smaller Asahiflex screw mount and go with the larger M42 - but it's a decision that eventually led to the screw mount being mainly associated with Pentax.

The early to mid '60s, when the 35mm SLR was gaining ground quickly as a "serious" camera (mainly because the viewfinders became a lot brighter and more practical), there were the "pro" bodies as in the Nikon F, and the Topcon RE Super, but the Pentax was aimed at non-pro enthusiasts for the most part. Old camera magazines have almost no mention of the SLR Canons - which must have been rare things indeed outside of Japan (although one does appear in Dr. No, 1962). I would seem Pentax was up against the early Minolta SR series, and Miranda - a brand which was widely advertised and sold, but faded away by the end of the decade. They were nicely made, but didn't have the reliability of a Pentax or Minolta.

And although they looked outdated and quirky, 1960s photo enthusiasts still had respect for the Exaktas, and all the wide-ranged German-made accessories for them.

[stevebrot]

I would seem Pentax was up against the early Minolta SR series, and Miranda - a brand which was widely advertised and sold, but faded away by the end of the decade. They were nicely made, but didn't have the reliability of a Pentax or Minolta.

Yep...It was the early Minolta and Miranda models that came immediately to my mind. The Rokkor Files site has a page devoted to the early Minolta SLRs...

The Rokkor Files - The Minolta SR Series

And although they looked outdated and quirky, 1960s photo enthusiasts still had respect for the Exaktas, and all the wide-ranged German-made accessories for them.

Strangely, the Exakta was considered a top-shelf pro tool during most of the SV's time, with the Nikon F being its biggest competitor. They were were relatively expensive too. I have two Exaktas, a VX IIa (~1959) and a VX1000 (~1968). Cosmetic variants of the VXIIa were sold at the same time as the SV and the VX1000 debuted in 1966 overlapping the SV by some two years. Neither of the Exaktas would be my first choice for field work, while I have no reason to not shoot with the SV.


Steve

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Last edited by stevebrot; 11-07-2018 at 11:56 PM.

[boriscleto]

It's interesting that Asahi decided to abandon their smaller Asahiflex screw mount and go with the larger M42 - but it's a decision that eventually led to the screw mount being mainly associated with Pentax.

I think it was clear from the start to Asahi that M37 was a mistake.

[grux]

Howdy,

This camera is incredible.

Ed

Agreed!

Below is an interesting review of the SV with some historical context, an enjoyable read. The SV is my most treasured Pentax SLR.

www.casualphotophile.com/2016/06/29/pentax-sv-camera-review/

[noblepa]

When I bought my Spotmatic in 1967, the other cameras I had to choose from were the Nikon F, the Minolta SRT-101, the Miranda and one or two Canons. Actually, very few of the camera shops I went to carried Canon at the time. Then there were the second-tier SLRs: the Mamiya-Sekor, the Praktica. The Nikkormat was around.

I found that the Nikon F, without the Photomic metering prism, was over $400. I don't remember if that included a lens or not. My Spotmatic was $220 including the 55mm, f/1.8 Super Takumar. This was the middle of the Vietnam war, and I regularly saw photographers jumping out of helicopters into rice paddies, with two or three Nikon F's around their necks. I decided I didn't need quite that level of durability and, at the time, the Super Takumars were considered among the best you could buy.

Some today might be surprised to know that Pentax outsold Nikon and Canon COMBINED in the sixties.

[TomB_tx]

I bought an H1a in about 1967 as my first SLR when the H3v (USA version of the SV) seemed to offer little for the extra cash - basically only the self timer, which I never would have used. It was well known that the H1a actually had the same shutter, including the 1/1000 speed that was simply not marked for marketing reasons.
The SV / H1a still have about the best “feel” when shooting of any camera. True, I do use my Leica M models more than other cameras now, but that’s mainly because the VF/RF is easier for me to compose and focus now.

[Ediz7531]

Agreed!

Below is an interesting review of the SV with some historical context, an enjoyable read. The SV is my most treasured Pentax SLR.

www.casualphotophile.com/2016/06/29/pentax-sv-camera-review/

I saw that review. It was really well written.

This thread has certainly been very informational!

[LesDMess]

This is a good visual reference of the Canon, Minolta, Nikon and Pentax lineup in chronological order -> Canon, Minolta, Nikon & Pentax

---------- Post added 11-08-18 at 12:04 AM ----------

Old camera magazines have almost no mention of the SLR Canons - which must have been rare things indeed outside of Japan (although one does appear in Dr. No, 1962).

Probably because the first Canon SLR - the Canonflex, was as spectacular a failure as the Nikon F was a success.

My collection of first model SLRs from each brand. I am still hunting for a Minolta SR2.

[Wasp]

Some today might be surprised to know that Pentax outsold Nikon and Canon COMBINED in the sixties.

It has been a long way down.

There is probably an MBA dissertation in the whole story. My take on it is that the rot set in when Pentax stuck with the M42 mount until the mid seventies.

[Ontarian50]

It has been a long way down.

There is probably an MBA dissertation in the whole story. My take on it is that the rot set in when Pentax stuck with the M42 mount until the mid seventies.

Around these parts, it's pretty clear Pentax was a hugely successful brand in the '60s and '70s, as you still see a lot of treasured (if not used in a couple of decades) Spotmatics, right from the original through the SP1000 and Spotmatic F. Even the ES models seemed to do well - they certainly seem to have sold better than the Minolta XE-7, but the Nikkormat EL apparently did well too.

What I don't see many of are the original K bodies. I can't think of the last time I saw a K2 or KX in the flesh. They're out there, but nowhere in the numbers of Spotmatics, or ES models. It was obviously painful for Pentax to switch lens mounts from the M42 - which had essentially disintegrated its universality - as several companies had their own take on how to do open-aperture metering.

But they definitely bounced back with the M series bodies. ME's and ME Supers were evidently very big sellers around here - then again, everything SLR sold like hotcakes in the late '70s early '80s.

I would say the "rot" set in with autofocus. Early AF bodies were button-pokey, buzzy affairs, and the Pentax SF series were buzzier and pokier than most. But at least Pentax stayed in the AF SLR game, as others like Konica, Yashica, and Ricoh threw in the towel and turned their efforts to compact point and shoots. It seems clear to me Pentax put their best efforts and best designers into making the compact cameras, as that's where the money was through the 1990s. The PZ series, MZ series, and (ugh!) *ist 35mm series were all a good step and a half behind what Nikon and Canon were doing at the time. At least they weren't Minoltas, which quickly degenerated into a series of SLRs with techie features no one asked for, and consistent reliability issues. RIP Minolta.

[womble]

As I had read on these fora a number of glowing reviews for the SV, a few years back I bought one and sent it to Eric for a CLA. I think I have run a single film through it, and since then it has sat on the shelf. I wish I could come-up with a logical reason why! It certainly wasn't the love at first roll that I was half expecting. I've run much more film through my early Spotmatic than that. I guess it's time to blow the dust off it and run some more film through it to see if I fall in love.

[Ediz7531]

This is a good visual reference of the Canon, Minolta, Nikon and Pentax lineup in chronological order -> Canon, Minolta, Nikon & Pentax

---------- Post added 11-08-18 at 12:04 AM ----------



Probably because the first Canon SLR - the Canonflex, was as spectacular a failure as the Nikon F was a success.

My collection of first model SLRs from each brand. I am still hunting for a Minolta SR2.

That's quite the collection. Judging by your geographical location, the green in the backgrounds must be Redwoods
Out of mere curiosity, I looked up an SR-2 on ebay. Quite the premium!
Minolta SR-2 Camera W/ 55mm 1.8 First 1958 W/ 135mm 2.8 Rokkor Lens Nice! | eBay

[TomB_tx]

The Canonflex was an impressively built camera, and in many ways feels higher quality than the Nikon F (from the ones I've handled) or Pentax. But Nikon outdid them by having very full range of lenses available at launch (at least matching Pentax), and concentrated on the single model. Canon followed their historical approach of offering a range of models to have something for every price range.. They also used the left-hand baseplate trigger film advance similar to their rangefinder models of that time, which made the camera a bit too different, even though it worked well. Like the original Nikon F they also had a clip-on meter. The Canonflex "R" lenses were unusual in that they had two body linkages: one to close-then-open the diaphragm when the shutter was tripped, and another to re-cock that mechanism when the shutter was wound. The slide-in prism mounting was very nicely done.
They were also committed to their rangefinder line, which continued up to about 1968, while Nikon was quick to decide the SLR was the way to go.
By 1964 Leica also launched their first SLR, but also saw their rangefinders as the main product, up into the mid 1970s after sale of the company. Then Leica tried to phase out the rangefinders and keep only the SLR rather than support two systems, but couldn't devote the resources needed. Demand for their M RF design caused them to bring it back, and by 2009 or so they abandoned the SLR line while the film RFs continued and added digital. Old Leica R users are still upset that the didn't move it into digital, although their SL mirrorless can adapt R lenses now (but so can Sony for less money).