Silbersalz35

**Eagle94VT** · 11-10-2018, 06:52 PM - **1 Like**

This should be fun! Anyone try it yet? It'll take a while before I can show some results...Now, which camera...

Arvid · 11-11-2018, 05:33 AM

Originally posted by Eagle94VT

This should be fun! Anyone try it yet? It'll take a while before I can show some results...Now, which camera...

If I understand correctly, they have the same films that CineStill offers plus an ISO 250 film (CineStill 800T is really a 500 film, they also have a 50, but no 250 afaik), but they'll already charge you for the development of the film the moment you buy it? And that's supposed to be the most exciting thing in film photography right now?

Or is it different filmstock? I didn't like the 50D Cinestill and stay away from trying the "800T", because Portra 400 always seems to be the better choice and cheaper. If that Silbersalz thing is something completly new, I'd like to be convinced. Pleas share your thoughts about it when you tested it!

abruzzi · 11-11-2018, 07:41 AM

Well, technically they process in ECN-2 chemistry, not C41. ECN-2 is what the color cinema films were designed for, but I don't know how different they turn out in one chemistry vs the other.

**gofour3** · 11-11-2018, 04:34 PM

and you don't get your negatives back until your next order of film from them:

DELIVERY - JPG images will be delivered using Adobe Lightroom online sharing. RAW images will be delivered using Dropbox. Processed negatives will be delivered to the customer with the next order.

Phil.

g026r · 11-11-2018, 07:14 PM

Originally posted by abruzzi

Well, technically they process in ECN-2 chemistry, not C41. ECN-2 is what the color cinema films were designed for, but I don't know how different they turn out in one chemistry vs the other.

Cinestill has this page, though it's a bit old: Beta test in C-41 & ECN-2 ? CineStill Film
For the Vision films they base Cinestill 800T off of, there doesn't look to be too much difference.

Be sure to post some results, @Eagle94VT! I'm curious to see how it goes.

Xmas · 11-12-2018, 05:56 AM

If it has remjet anti halitation backing you need to remove it before tanking in C41 or take the risk of removal post developing!

Anti-halation backing - Wikipedia

butangmucat · 11-15-2018, 03:17 PM

From their website this seems to be just respooled Kodak VISION3 stock. I regularly shoot the 5207/250D stock respooled by some resellers in China (and just bought some batch from Film Photography Project here in the USA).

Here's a writeup I posted several months ago: Some Thoughts on VISION3 250D Motion Picture Films Stock (ECN-2) - PentaxForums.com

Should apply to Silbersalz35 250D too.

cdmikelis · 11-13-2019, 05:15 PM

I see Silbersalz35 remarkable and unique for this reasons:

1) PRICE / roll
Buying 4 rolls cost me 60,71 EUR delivered (German VAT inc.). Buying 4 rolls of CineStill Xpro C-41 800T cost me 61,10 EUR delivered (Slovenian VAT inc.). I can also pick up film myself in both cases, but for Silbersaltz35 that means 1400 km from my place near Ljubljana to Stuttgart, other films I need to drive "only" 50 km to nearest local store. In both cases online delivery is cheaper. I can also buy on my business account in both cases, so I have VAT deducted. So in that case Silbersalz35 total price is €48,23 and CineStill total price is €50,10 - in either case Silbersalz35 is cheaper. Not by much, but it is. Most other top rated films I used are somewhere same price per 4 rolls delivered (Portra, Ektar, Pro400H) or even much more expensive (Lomo, Provia, Velvia). In both cases delivery cost is the same for up to 6 packs of 4, so cost per roll drops as more rolls are ordered in the same time.

2) true ECN2 PROCESSING
I tested CineStill 800T and in my experience it is the worst film I ever shoot. Washed colors, grainy as pushed Delta 3200, ugly color cast in shadows and ugly halation around anything remotelly red. It's like cheap digital camera at insane ISO, but with lower resolution too. I will never buy it again since it one of the more expensive film. As I searched throughout the internet, ECN-2 processing is superior to C-41 and processing Vision3 in C-41 is only "good enough" approximation, not to produce same quality. A link above show processing of CineStill in both C41 vs ECN-2 to be identical, but there they already process film that was preprocessed before exposure (stripping halation layer). Even on that picture it can be seen that C-41 process wash out some highlights, which have less saturation and are brighter. A Yutube video shown

You Tube

prove that even further when processing original Vision 3 film vs CineStill processed. Original is superior in several areas, mostly in shadows and halation. Shadows shows exactly the same ugly blue grainy look as I experienced from my test. While original have non of that, saturation of highlights is much better and no halation. So no question to me what to pick in the future.

3) Cost of processing for Silbersaltz35 = ZERO.
Processing of 4 rolls of any other film cost me €12 + 2x drive to the lab (total 2h of time and 100 km driven). That is just processing. Than I have several options for scanning: Whole roll at the time of processing on Fuji scanner cost me €10 / roll. I can also scan home at flatbed for free (but huge time pain) or send film to another lab to scan it with Hasselblad drum scanner for €1 per selected frame! So scanning of 4 rolls can cost from €52 for JEPG scans from FujiFrontier up to €156 for Hasselblad drum scans if all 144 frames would be scan worthy!! Plus all driving.

Did I mention that scanning with Silbersaltz35 option is in the price of rolls that are still cheaper than CineStill rolls alone? Sending film back to Germany with tracking cost me 8 EUR flat and that is it.

4) CINTEL high end scanning and high end files delivered.
As I can see the samples that scanning isat the upper level that exists today. They also have calibrated color science per stock which they include. You can use it in Lightroom. Also you have JPEG preview files to see what files you actually like and download only those. Editing true wide DR files is like have digital raw files vs baked JPEGs which soon fell apart when edited. I think quality can not even compare to any other scanning method I tried other than Hasselblad method which is 35 times more expensive. I stopped having film scanned in FujiFilm scanners in developing labs because I hate the auto correction of highlights which does bad on clouds and all sort of unvanted enhancements. There is no hope to be scanned with any care from operator. It's automated process. Also resolution of end files is up to 9 megapixels, while Silbersaltz35 claim 21 megapixels.

COCLUSION:
Purchase of 4 rolls of CIneStill, developing and scanning in the local lab cost me 61+12+40 = €113 or €0.79 per frame.
Purchase of 4 rolls of CIneStill, developing in the local lab and Hasselblad scanning cost me 61+12+144 = €217 or €1.50 per frame.
Purchase of 4 rolls of Silbersaltz35, and sending for proper processing and high end scanning cost me 61+8 = €69 or €0.48 per frame.

Even if buying cheapest films at €5 per roll it would still cost me much more per frame than Silbersaltz35. When you calculate ALL costs from purchase to have frames in digital form, Silbersaltz35 seems the cheapest option at probably the best quality at the same time. How cheaper are other custom cine-film packaged in 35 mm? How much cheaper one can develop them at home. How faster or better one can scan them at home. Unless owning a proper equipped lab I think every other option is more expensive and time consuming and may result in poorer quality.

That is my opinion.

**gofour3** · 11-14-2019, 09:01 AM

Originally posted by cdmikelis

Even if buying cheapest films at €5 per roll it would still cost me much more per frame than Silbersaltz35. When you calculate ALL costs from purchase to have frames in digital form, Silbersaltz35 seems the cheapest option at probably the best quality at the same time. How cheaper are other custom cine-film packaged in 35 mm? How much cheaper one can develop them at home. How faster or better one can scan them at home. Unless owning a proper equipped lab I think every other option is more expensive and time consuming and may result in poorer quality.

That is my opinion.

Yeah I guess it depends on how far a C-41 lab is from where you live. Having CineStill remove the remjet layer for you, just makes it easier for most people to get it developed in C-41. I have three labs, all less than a 10 minute drive, that can develop C-41 for me. So for me it's more convenient to use the CineStill film, including the B&W Double X.

How are the prices for E6 films & processing for you, probably even more?

Phil.

cdmikelis · 11-15-2019, 04:26 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by gofour3

Yeah I guess it depends on how far a C-41 lab is from where you live. Having CineStill remove the remjet layer for you, just makes it easier for most people to get it developed in C-41. I have three labs, all less than a 10 minute drive, that can develop C-41 for me. So for me it's more convenient to use the CineStill film, including the B&W Double X.

How are the prices for E6 films & processing for you, probably even more?

Phil.

gofour3, developing for C6 or BW is €10 per roll in one single lab in country (BW can be really done home, though). Developing for C-41 is €3 in hundreds of labs around country that still have Frontiers in working state. My nearest hour lab is 6 km away, but they just develop and make standard prints (Frontier 330) and scanning in 10x15 cm equivalent resolution (2 Mpx) for additional €3 - cheap and volume service. My main frustration is scanning not developing alone. I do not like what Fuji SP-3000 results are in those labs where they do it, and Hasselblad scan is for special frames only due to price. Silbersaltz35 is unique for scanning quality included in the price of rolls which is lower than CineStill rolls alone. Sending them rolls cost me similar to the time and drive I spend for nearest lab that offers Frontier scan only.

Regardless of drive, no matter how close the lab would be, the most inconvenience is seeking parking in crowded city, pay for that cost €2, time to walk to the lab, and all that twice per roll. I could send them rolls, but that costs me too and still have to pick them up. In the end all that adds to final frame price. I like Ektar, Pro400H and Portra among popular films, CineStill 800T did not worke for me at all. I need to test Solbersaltz35 more to be able to compare myself. They do not scan other films than theirs. So I still need to scan hundreds of films from the past. I save for used Hasselbladt

**gofour3** · 11-15-2019, 09:53 AM

Originally posted by cdmikelis

gofour3, developing for C6 or BW is €10 per roll in one single lab in country (BW can be really done home, though). Developing for C-41 is €3 in hundreds of labs around country that still have Frontiers in working state. My nearest hour lab is 6 km away, but they just develop and make standard prints (Frontier 330) and scanning in 10x15 cm equivalent resolution (2 Mpx) for additional €3 - cheap and volume service. My main frustration is scanning not developing alone. I do not like what Fuji SP-3000 results are in those labs where they do it, and Hasselblad scan is for special frames only due to price. Silbersaltz35 is unique for scanning quality included in the price of rolls which is lower than CineStill rolls alone. Sending them rolls cost me similar to the time and drive I spend for nearest lab that offers Frontier scan only.

Regardless of drive, no matter how close the lab would be, the most inconvenience is seeking parking in crowded city, pay for that cost €2, time to walk to the lab, and all that twice per roll. I could send them rolls, but that costs me too and still have to pick them up. In the end all that adds to final frame price. I like Ektar, Pro400H and Portra among popular films, CineStill 800T did not worke for me at all. I need to test Solbersaltz35 more to be able to compare myself. They do not scan other films than theirs. So I still need to scan hundreds of films from the past. I save for used Hasselbladt

Thanks, post some results of Silbersalz35 when you get the chance. I'd love to try it someday.

Phil.

11-10-2018, 06:52 PM - 1 Like	#1
Eagle94VT Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2010 Photos: Albums Posts: 291	Silbersalz35 This should be fun! Anyone try it yet? It'll take a while before I can show some results...Now, which camera...

11-11-2018, 05:33 AM	#2
Arvid Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Photos: Gallery Posts: 168	Originally posted by Eagle94VT This should be fun! Anyone try it yet? It'll take a while before I can show some results...Now, which camera... If I understand correctly, they have the same films that CineStill offers plus an ISO 250 film (CineStill 800T is really a 500 film, they also have a 50, but no 250 afaik), but they'll already charge you for the development of the film the moment you buy it? And that's supposed to be the most exciting thing in film photography right now? Or is it different filmstock? I didn't like the 50D Cinestill and stay away from trying the "800T", because Portra 400 always seems to be the better choice and cheaper. If that Silbersalz thing is something completly new, I'd like to be convinced. Pleas share your thoughts about it when you tested it!

11-11-2018, 07:41 AM	#3
abruzzi Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: New Mexico Posts: 788	Well, technically they process in ECN-2 chemistry, not C41. ECN-2 is what the color cinema films were designed for, but I don't know how different they turn out in one chemistry vs the other.

11-11-2018, 04:34 PM	#4
gofour3 Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 8,092	and you don't get your negatives back until your next order of film from them: DELIVERY - JPG images will be delivered using Adobe Lightroom online sharing. RAW images will be delivered using Dropbox. Processed negatives will be delivered to the customer with the next order. Phil.

11-11-2018, 07:14 PM	#5
g026r Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,074	Originally posted by abruzzi Well, technically they process in ECN-2 chemistry, not C41. ECN-2 is what the color cinema films were designed for, but I don't know how different they turn out in one chemistry vs the other. Cinestill has this page, though it's a bit old: Beta test in C-41 & ECN-2 ? CineStill Film For the Vision films they base Cinestill 800T off of, there doesn't look to be too much difference. Be sure to post some results, @Eagle94VT! I'm curious to see how it goes.

11-12-2018, 05:56 AM	#6
Xmas Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 617	If it has remjet anti halitation backing you need to remove it before tanking in C41 or take the risk of removal post developing! Anti-halation backing - Wikipedia

11-15-2018, 03:17 PM	#7
butangmucat Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 709	From their website this seems to be just respooled Kodak VISION3 stock. I regularly shoot the 5207/250D stock respooled by some resellers in China (and just bought some batch from Film Photography Project here in the USA). Here's a writeup I posted several months ago: Some Thoughts on VISION3 250D Motion Picture Films Stock (ECN-2) - PentaxForums.com Should apply to Silbersalz35 250D too.

11-14-2019, 09:01 AM	#9
gofour3 Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 8,092	Originally posted by cdmikelis Even if buying cheapest films at €5 per roll it would still cost me much more per frame than Silbersaltz35. When you calculate ALL costs from purchase to have frames in digital form, Silbersaltz35 seems the cheapest option at probably the best quality at the same time. How cheaper are other custom cine-film packaged in 35 mm? How much cheaper one can develop them at home. How faster or better one can scan them at home. Unless owning a proper equipped lab I think every other option is more expensive and time consuming and may result in poorer quality. That is my opinion. Yeah I guess it depends on how far a C-41 lab is from where you live. Having CineStill remove the remjet layer for you, just makes it easier for most people to get it developed in C-41. I have three labs, all less than a 10 minute drive, that can develop C-41 for me. So for me it's more convenient to use the CineStill film, including the B&W Double X. How are the prices for E6 films & processing for you, probably even more? Phil.

11-15-2019, 04:26 AM - 1 Like	#10
cdmikelis New Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 17	Originally posted by gofour3 Yeah I guess it depends on how far a C-41 lab is from where you live. Having CineStill remove the remjet layer for you, just makes it easier for most people to get it developed in C-41. I have three labs, all less than a 10 minute drive, that can develop C-41 for me. So for me it's more convenient to use the CineStill film, including the B&W Double X. How are the prices for E6 films & processing for you, probably even more? Phil. gofour3, developing for C6 or BW is €10 per roll in one single lab in country (BW can be really done home, though). Developing for C-41 is €3 in hundreds of labs around country that still have Frontiers in working state. My nearest hour lab is 6 km away, but they just develop and make standard prints (Frontier 330) and scanning in 10x15 cm equivalent resolution (2 Mpx) for additional €3 - cheap and volume service. My main frustration is scanning not developing alone. I do not like what Fuji SP-3000 results are in those labs where they do it, and Hasselblad scan is for special frames only due to price. Silbersaltz35 is unique for scanning quality included in the price of rolls which is lower than CineStill rolls alone. Sending them rolls cost me similar to the time and drive I spend for nearest lab that offers Frontier scan only. Regardless of drive, no matter how close the lab would be, the most inconvenience is seeking parking in crowded city, pay for that cost €2, time to walk to the lab, and all that twice per roll. I could send them rolls, but that costs me too and still have to pick them up. In the end all that adds to final frame price. I like Ektar, Pro400H and Portra among popular films, CineStill 800T did not worke for me at all. I need to test Solbersaltz35 more to be able to compare myself. They do not scan other films than theirs. So I still need to scan hundreds of films from the past. I save for used Hasselbladt

11-15-2019, 09:53 AM	#11
gofour3 Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 8,092	Originally posted by cdmikelis gofour3, developing for C6 or BW is €10 per roll in one single lab in country (BW can be really done home, though). Developing for C-41 is €3 in hundreds of labs around country that still have Frontiers in working state. My nearest hour lab is 6 km away, but they just develop and make standard prints (Frontier 330) and scanning in 10x15 cm equivalent resolution (2 Mpx) for additional €3 - cheap and volume service. My main frustration is scanning not developing alone. I do not like what Fuji SP-3000 results are in those labs where they do it, and Hasselblad scan is for special frames only due to price. Silbersaltz35 is unique for scanning quality included in the price of rolls which is lower than CineStill rolls alone. Sending them rolls cost me similar to the time and drive I spend for nearest lab that offers Frontier scan only. Regardless of drive, no matter how close the lab would be, the most inconvenience is seeking parking in crowded city, pay for that cost €2, time to walk to the lab, and all that twice per roll. I could send them rolls, but that costs me too and still have to pick them up. In the end all that adds to final frame price. I like Ektar, Pro400H and Portra among popular films, CineStill 800T did not worke for me at all. I need to test Solbersaltz35 more to be able to compare myself. They do not scan other films than theirs. So I still need to scan hundreds of films from the past. I save for used Hasselbladt Thanks, post some results of Silbersalz35 when you get the chance. I'd love to try it someday. Phil.