[tonyzoc]

I have tons of darkroom experience from back in the day. I developed 110 to 4x5 film, b&w and color, and printed negatived or slides (Cibachrome).

I've been shooting some film (b&w and color c-41) and I thought I would developer my negatives and scan them. What I'm finding is chemistry has gone through the roof...I used to get a gallon of microdol-x for under $10 but I just got done buying a gallon of D-76, Fixer, Stopbath, and photoflo and I spent close to $70. That's like $6 a roll to process. For C-41 it's even more.

So my questions.... What's the best (cheapest) way to buy chemistry? Is it even worth developing your own anymore (assuming you're not pushing or pulling process), or should I just send out for film dev only then scan my own? What are you all doing?

Thanks

[Gashlycrumb]

I shot so much film this past year that my resolution for next year is to develop and scan my own. I opted for one of CineStill's holiday starter kits which looks like a pretty good deal.

[tonyzoc]

I shot so much film this past year that my resolution for next year is to develop and scan my own. I opted for one of CineStill's holiday starter kits which looks like a pretty good deal.

They're still about $100/gallon of C41... If I remember correctly I use 240ml per 35mm tank...so about 4 rolls a liter and 15 to 16 rolls a gallon...that's $6.66 a roll... Seems high to me but still cheaper than sending it out. I must be getting old. So, for B&W, I paid $70 for a gallon...$4.60 a roll. I guess I'll probably have to bite the bullet. I do have about 30 rolls of color in the fridge...and I got a 100 expose roll of color I shot on an MX bulk back 20 yrs ago. I'm going to load up one spool and develope it and see it it's still good. I think I shout NHRA racing at Maple Grove, PA with it...using a 300/4 SMC Takumar and a Sigma 400/5.6 CAT.

[Jean Poitiers]

I use a lot of Caffenol for B&W ... the "CL" recipe gives very nice results.

[stevebrot]

So my questions.... What's the best (cheapest) way to buy chemistry?

Try Freestyle:

D-76 (1 gal) : $9.99
Kodak Indicator Stop Bath (16oz) : $6.99
Kodak Fixer (1 gal) : $13.99 (I would probably get Legacy Pro at $7.99)

You might be interested in looking at HC-110. I use dilution "H" (1+63) with 6ml minimum per roll to extend development times. The most common dilution is "B" (1+31).


Steve

[Alex645]

What's the best (cheapest) way to buy chemistry? Is it even worth developing your own anymore (assuming you're not pushing or pulling process), or should I just send out for film dev only then scan my own? What are you all doing?

For color C41, it is more cost effective to send it to a lab and then scan it yourself.

For B&W, it's hard to beat Clayton chems. Clayton F76 developer is essentially D76. They also make their own Rapid Fixer and a couple of different paper developers. Arista also makes affordable quality B&W chems.
If you live in the contiguous US, shipping is the only other cost factor if you're not in the LA area.

Black and White Chemicals | Freestyle Photographic Supplies

[pres589]

Reuse of C-41 developer across multiple rolls brings the costs down nicely but there's the fun of dealing with weakened developer action as you reuse it.


Arista B&W developer is Clayton, either F60 or F76+, or so the internet says.


I think with Clayton F76+ and their Rapid Fixer my costs are around 75 cents a roll to developer a 35mm roll of B&W film. I'll respectfully disagree on F76+ == D-76 as they're not based on the same chemistry.

[disconnekt]

For Mic-x, LegacyPro has their own variant of it available at Freestyle for $10 LegacyPro Mic-X Film Developer (Makes 1 Gallon) | Freestyle Photographic Supplies)

For fixer, I use Photographer's Formulary TF-5, with the 1 gallon working solution will fix between 60 to 80 rolls of film (depending on the film used)
Formulary TF-5 Archival Rapid Fixer - 1 Liter | Freestyle Photographic Supplies

[Lhorn]

I've been using a Unicolor 1 liter kit that I got from Freestyle for about $24. I think the prices for the various 1 liter C41 kits were all about the same. Cinestill is 24.99 now I think. I think people are routinely getting 20 plus rolls from a 1 liter kit. I'd say that's pretty cheap for developing color.

[Alex645]

I'll respectfully disagree on F76+ == D-76 as they're not based on the same chemistry.

Yes, that is correct, and I never wrote D76=F76+. Clayton would have a patent infringement lawsuit with Kodak. The actual ingredients:

Kodak D76:
Sodium sulphite (7757-83-7), Hydroquinone (123-31-9), Bis(4-hydroxy-N-methylanilinium) sulphate
(55-55-0)

Clayton F76:
Potassium Metabisulfite (16731-55-8), Potassium Hydroxide 1310-58-3 2-5

What I meant is that they are essentially the same in that they are both general film developers. Developers are often assessed by speed, grain, contrast, and price. Identical? No. More similar than different? Yes. The main practical difference I have found between the two is that D-76 has a better shelf life but more expensive. F76+ is less expensive, has more speed, but not the best shelf life. But IMO the two developers will give you very similar results.

[tonyzoc]

Try Freestyle:

D-76 (1 gal) : $9.99
Kodak Indicator Stop Bath (16oz) : $6.99
Kodak Fixer (1 gal) : $13.99 (I would probably get Legacy Pro at $7.99)

You might be interested in looking at HC-110. I use dilution "H" (1+63) with 6ml minimum per roll to extend development times. The most common dilution is "B" (1+31).


Steve

I looked at freestyle buy was looking at kits...those are good prices. I'll definitely look again. Thanks for the tip. God, I paid $25 for a gallon of rapidfix.

I've never used HC110. What characteristics do you get that dilute? I would assume lower contrast and a larger tonal range...which might work well for scanning where you can adjust contrast in post process.



---------- Post added 12-11-19 at 07:15 PM ----------

For color C41, it is more cost effective to send it to a lab and then scan it yourself.



For B&W, it's hard to beat Clayton chems. Clayton F76 developer is essentially D76. They also make their own Rapid Fixer and a couple of different paper developers. Arista also makes affordable quality B&W chems.

If you live in the contiguous US, shipping is the only other cost factor if you're not in the LA area.



Black and White Chemicals | Freestyle Photographic Supplies

Thanks, I'll check them out.

---------- Post added 12-11-19 at 07:17 PM ----------

For Mic-x, LegacyPro has their own variant of it available at Freestyle for $10 LegacyPro Mic-X Film Developer (Makes 1 Gallon) | Freestyle Photographic Supplies)



For fixer, I use Photographer's Formulary TF-5, with the 1 gallon working solution will fix between 60 to 80 rolls of film (depending on the film used)

Formulary TF-5 Archival Rapid Fixer - 1 Liter | Freestyle Photographic Supplies

Nice, thanks. I actually prefer microdol-x developer and used it most of the time. I'm assuming mic-x is the equivalent.

[pres589]

... things about D-76 & F76+...

They both seem like good general purpose B&W developers, agreed 100% there. I think I picked a good developer in F76+ as the first developer I personally used at home to develop film. It's very good do-all juice.


HC-110 interests me a lot for pushing, as does Dektol. I think between these three I should be good for just about any film I come across. Not so many folks using Dektol; I like that it might be useful for extreme pushing, and the results are almost binary in output (meaning, there's very little to shadows, B&W film is actually just B or W).

[stevebrot]

I've never used HC110. What characteristics do you get that dilute?

Here is a link to the Kodak HC-110 datasheet. It covers times and temps for the standard dilutions A - F as well as how to work from stock solution, if that should prove easier.

Kodak Alaris | HC-110 Datasheet (PDF)

HC-110 is a high activity developer and even at dilution "B" (1+31) times may be on the short side and hard to handle. With the unofficial dilution "H" (1+63), one mostly gets additional time (2x that of dilution "B") and with that the ability to effectively apply different agitation schedules and techniques for compensating effect. Going a step further to dilution "G" (1+119) allows for variations of stand and semi-stand development.* Note that even with high dilution, a minimum volume of concentrate should be used to provide development to completion. A useful reference to most things HC-110 is the resource page created some years ago by Michael Covington. While the last updates were in 2012, the information is still pertinent and useful.

Covington Innovations | Unofficial HC-110 Resource Page

This and the datasheet above should give you a start.


Steve


* Dilution "G" quite famously traces at least part of its history to Ansel Adams, who was a fan of HC-110. He mentions the specifics of using HC-110 at higher dilutions for compensating effect in the first edition of "The Negative", pp226-228.

[tonyzoc]

Here is a link to the Kodak HC-110 datasheet. It covers times and temps for the standard dilutions A - F as well as how to work from stock solution, if that should prove easier.

Kodak Alaris | HC-110 Datasheet (PDF)

HC-110 is a high activity developer and even at dilution "B" (1+31) times may be on the short side and hard to handle. With the unofficial dilution "H" (1+63), one mostly gets additional time (2x that of dilution "B") and with that the ability to effectively apply different agitation schedules and techniques for compensating effect. Going a step further to dilution "G" (1+119) allows for variations of stand and semi-stand development.* Note that even with high dilution, a minimum volume of concentrate should be used to provide development to completion. A useful reference to most things HC-110 is the resource page created some years ago by Michael Covington. While the last updates were in 2012, the information is still pertinent and useful.

Covington Innovations | Unofficial HC-110 Resource Page

This and the datasheet above should give you a start.


Steve


* Dilution "G" quite famously traces at least part of its history to Ansel Adams, who was a fan of HC-110. He mentions the specifics of using HC-110 at higher dilutions for compensating effect in the first edition of "The Negative", pp226-228.

I read that book...a big part of his zone system was over/under exposing coupled with under/over developing to squeeze or extend the zone into the latitude (or tonal range might be a better word) of the film. It's harder to do with roll film because of the varied exposures. I'm curious what digital image post processing adds to his concept ..if I shrink zones on the negative can I stretch them back out in darkroom?

[pres589]

Here's another good reference on HC-110. The whole site is pretty good; Re-Using Kodak HC-110 Dilution B (DIY Film Developing)