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07-26-2020, 09:08 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by goddo31 Quote
I think this is predictable too, as a model such as the M6 becomes really expensive then people start looking at cheaper RF options and over time the prices of those go up too.
A colleague showed me his new M6 and I couldn't believe how much it cost. I was thinking that it's spec'd just like the K1000. And on top of that it's a rangefinder . . .

07-27-2020, 02:03 AM - 1 Like   #17
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The price tag due the popularity of a camera doesnít seem to follow the rarity logic anymore.
Many cameras are potential paper weights yet their demand get higher every month.

Iím very close to my dealer and we always spend a moment almost every 2 weeks chatting about trends.

He told me this story, which might not be an isolated case, of this client of his who absolutely wanted a M6 because she read so many things about it, watched so many YouTube videos, etc.
He sold her one. She fell in love with the object instantly, but out of frustration, not knowing how to work with such simple tool, and a rangefinder, she came back after a few weeks saying it was faulty because not one of her pictures was on focus or sharp.. eventually she admitted the didnít like RF and she had read a lot about MF, wanted a RB because that was the it camera if the moment..

After advising her to get something else lighter and less of a pain to fix if it failed, she ended up getting a P67.

2 of the hottest cameras, bought and swapped impulsively with no prior film experience, because they were put on trend by influencers.

What I mean is, when one wants to get into film, I find logic to invite one to ask around and try whatís out there and make an educated decision based on their connection with the object. So many posts everywhere asking for the best camera, and people dropping the same models again and again. It doesnít help diversity and curiosity. Also potential buyers should really take the time to do their homework and document themselves properly instead of just watching a couple of videos, most praising the same stuff..

What do you guys think?
07-27-2020, 02:18 AM - 2 Likes   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by _the_bside_ Quote
What do you guys think?
I think today's people, especially the younger ones (those born after the wall came down), are fidgety because they never learned some sort of self-control. It's like cookie-monster in the old days. They see something blinky and the youtube guy which is soooo cute with it's full beard talks miracles and they go me-want... And obviously they have too much money left to spend. Maybe inherited.
07-27-2020, 02:34 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by yucafrita Quote
I think today's people, especially the younger ones (those born after the wall came down), are fidgety because they never learned some sort of self-control. It's like cookie-monster in the old days. They see something blinky and the youtube guy which is soooo cute with it's full beard talks miracles and they go me-want... And obviously they have too much money left to spend. Maybe inherited.
I dunno. I watched the wall come down, so I'm definitely not one of the younger ones... I think "being fidgety" isn't as dependent on generation as it may seem.
The younger ones are just the ones you see because the older ones don't have so many YouTube channels...

There are plenty of people here who do the same thing...

I just bought a 'new' MF rangefinder that's close to 15 years older than I am.

And I can totally see the attractiveness of a P67 over a RB/RZ or even over any of the rangefinder Mamiyas.
For shooting in the field, I far prefer its ergonomics to the RB/RZ beasts, and in the absence of a live view mechanism, any rangefinder will show shortcomings.

-Eric

07-27-2020, 02:51 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by TwoUptons Quote
I dunno. I watched the wall come down, so I'm definitely not one of the younger ones... I think "being fidgety" isn't as dependent on generation as it may seem.
The younger ones are just the ones you see because the older ones don't have so many YouTube channels...

There are plenty of people here who do the same thing...

I just bought a 'new' MF rangefinder that's close to 15 years older than I am.

And I can totally see the attractiveness of a P67 over a RB/RZ or even over any of the rangefinder Mamiyas.
For shooting in the field, I far prefer its ergonomics to the RB/RZ beasts, and in the absence of a live view mechanism, any rangefinder will show shortcomings.

-Eric
Well, but I think the education or growing-up was quite different in the pre-mobile phone era. Information overkill and not being able to filter tin foil content from real one although present in all generations, it's my impression it is more dominant in the so-called internet generation. Which is kind of a joke, I use the internet since 1995 and I am always amazed of how little capacity the users have today, esp. the ones who really grow up with it. However, let's call it "our generation", bases it's decision going eg P67 more on facts and investigation and if it fits our needs. Not always of course, but generally speaking and excluding some trial and error.. While the 30 something generation is far more satisfying their immediate consumer bubble (what's the latest chic to be en vogue in the nerdy fashion area).
07-27-2020, 05:22 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by yucafrita Quote
Well, but I think the education or growing-up was quite different in the pre-mobile phone era. Information overkill and not being able to filter tin foil content from real one although present in all generations, it's my impression it is more dominant in the so-called internet generation. Which is kind of a joke, I use the internet since 1995 and I am always amazed of how little capacity the users have today, esp. the ones who really grow up with it. However, let's call it "our generation", bases it's decision going eg P67 more on facts and investigation and if it fits our needs. Not always of course, but generally speaking and excluding some trial and error.. While the 30 something generation is far more satisfying their immediate consumer bubble (what's the latest chic to be en vogue in the nerdy fashion area).
I think you're getting into way too many ill thought out stereotypes here...
I'm part of the "30 something generation", don't follow fashion and try to avoid camera trends within reason and generally deliberate over any gear choices for an extraordinarily long time...

From my perspective, my generation is generally better informed overall than my parent's generation, the "boomers".
(now there's a counter stereotype for you, which may also infuriate many on this here forum!)
07-27-2020, 09:16 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by _the_bside_ Quote
What I mean is, when one wants to get into film, I find logic to invite one to ask around and try what’s out there and make an educated decision based on their connection with the object. So many posts everywhere asking for the best camera, and people dropping the same models again and again. It doesn’t help diversity and curiosity. Also potential buyers should really take the time to do their homework and document themselves properly instead of just watching a couple of videos, most praising the same stuff..

What do you guys think?
The advise I would give anyone wanting to get into film is go down to a local camera store and check out their used section of film gear. That way they can ask questions, try different cameras and have some sort of warranty on the used item. Of course not everyone lives near a camera store with used gear, but still bigger cities usually have some place with used gear.

Phil.
07-27-2020, 09:39 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by gofour3 Quote
Of course not everyone lives near a camera store with used gear, but still bigger cities usually have some place with used gear.
Or even open given the current restrictions. Probably another reason for reliance to online info.

07-27-2020, 12:46 PM   #24
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As a long-time Pentax user I've long fancied a P67 of some variety and I now regret I didn't succumb ten years ago. Current prices are a bit eye-watering. Mind you, with the money I am currently saving on petrol/coffee/meals out/beer I can probably afford one at some point.

K.
07-27-2020, 12:57 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by womble Quote
As a long-time Pentax user I've long fancied a P67 of some variety and I now regret I didn't succumb ten years ago. Current prices are a bit eye-watering. Mind you, with the money I am currently saving on petrol/coffee/meals out/beer I can probably afford one at some point.

K.
What's the average price for a P67 where you're located?

---------- Post added 07-27-20 at 01:10 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by LesDMess Quote
Or even open given the current restrictions. Probably another reason for reliance to online info.
Totally agree with that. Yet online info never replaces a first 'contact'.. Holding an object helps a lot I guess. It always helped me.
For example, I love RF, worked with Leica for the past 10 years. I always loved the form factor of the Mamiya 6/7. Last Feb. in Melbourne, I was able to spend a day trying one. A few days later, I had the chance to try another camera I've always considered: the Bronica RF645.
I fell in love with the Bronica and really didn't feel any connection with the Mamiya. One felt sturdy, reliable, the other felt wrong, like a potential expensive plastic brick. Eventually, I didn't go on with those options and kept my Hasselblad SWC.
Back to Antwerp, I ended up selling the SWC and dropped by my favorite dealer who had a few P67 in stock and proposed me to try one. Loved it instantly! Why a P67 when on the other hand I'm being critical when it comes to trends? Well, because I'm used to work with big negs. I jumped from 35mm to 6x9 with my first MF, a Mamiya Press Universal, which I sold, then a couple of years ago, up to 4x5 and created the images for my first show in Antwerp, and came back down to 6x6, with a 503cx and a SWC, and now, 6x7..
Am I following trends? I have the feeling I'm not, rather I'm following my feelings towards a certain camera which gives me the size of negative I need for my work.
I'd say, each camera helps me to project myself into a specific mindset, and create in many different ways..
07-27-2020, 06:38 PM   #26
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I mainly use the same models of film cameras I’ve used for 50 years, but when prices were low a decade ago picked up some I used to drool over, such as a 500C, Rolleiflex TLR, original Nikon F, Exakta, and even Kodak folders from the early 1900s in 127,120, and 616 sizes. Filled in the cracks with Japanese TLRs in 120 & 127, and of course a Pentax 6x7.
I enjoy shooting Medium Format, and especially the waist level VF for the different perspective it gives. While the 6x7 lenses are about the best, I enjoy the simple 3.5 Rollei for its light weight and smooth quiet operation.
The 6x7 forms the core of my physical fitness program.
07-28-2020, 03:54 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by _the_bside_ Quote
What's the average price for a P67 where you're located?
If one is looking for something serviced/with some sort of guarantee, well over £1000, probably body only. If you're willing to take a gamble on something rougher looking, £800 or so.
07-28-2020, 10:33 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by womble Quote
If one is looking for something serviced/with some sort of guarantee, well over £1000, probably body only. If you're willing to take a gamble on something rougher looking, £800 or so.
Another problem is finding them in the UK. Apart from a few 'adapted' to instant film, they rarely appear at dealers (my preferred option), any that do, usually get snapped up very quickly. Similarly, one of the big Pentax dealers recently had a used K1000 + M50/2 with a warranty, priced at £250 - it sold within 4 days.

Last edited by johnha; 07-28-2020 at 10:34 AM. Reason: clarity
07-28-2020, 01:33 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by womble Quote
If one is looking for something serviced/with some sort of guarantee, well over £1000, probably body only. If you're willing to take a gamble on something rougher looking, £800 or so.
Hm, I see. That's a mid-high end price tag for a body only..
07-28-2020, 03:01 PM - 2 Likes   #30
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Its not unique to Pentax. After Peter Parker was seen using a Yashica Auto Electro in Spiderman the prices went mad. Right now people are paying bonkers money for Minolta Xx00 series despite the fact these things can go wonky at a moments notice, derailed shutters and blown capacitors if my experience is anything to go by. Canon AE1s seem to be going nutty now as well. Mostly since Covid....I wonder of people have gotten bored enough to try film again. Perhaps 3 months at home has removed the attraction of instant results. Who knows.

I can only imagine prices are driven by some tin foil hat wearing beardy or worse some excitable young and trendy type on YouTube as theres not much to recommed an AE1 or X700 over something better made like an FTb or XD. Oddly the classic XE seems to turn up cheap.....hmmmm better get in there quick.
Its all a bit mad when people will pay over the odds for a K1000 which was always a cheap starter camera and they value it over the KX which was the flagship and also made in smaller numbers so rarer and better equipped.
Olympus OMs are still cheap enough though. Maybe I should start a YouTube channel ( old git discusses why the OM1 is ace ) but only after hoovering up any eBay bargains, create the need then gouge on price. Nah....too much like hard work really.

I put it down to buyers being a bit green and many not really having been around the block enough to really know whats what so they latch on to the zeitgeist on the web. Its not their fault that they are too young to remember film from the first time round and after all being young is a crime we have all been guilty of at some point.

Super 8mm movies anyone ?
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