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10-19-2020, 02:41 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Harbaror Quote

Clear & Sunny: f/16 0 1/400 (1/500 K1000)
Slightly overcast: f/11 +1 stop 1/400 (1/500 K1000)
Overcast: f/8 +2 stops 1/400 (1/500 K1000)
Heavy overcast: f/5.6 +3 stops 1/400 (1/500 K1000)
Open shade/Sunset: f/4 +4 stops 1/400 (1/500 K1000)

Will I not be able to go further than f/11 with ISO400?
I have corrected the above table. Hopefully that makes sense?

10-19-2020, 08:42 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Harbaror Quote
Still learning about how to shoot with my K1000.
Is the meter operational? If so, that is probably your best option over sunny 16. If not, your next best option would be a hand-held meter or a camera with an operational meter.

QuoteOriginally posted by Harbaror Quote
if I am not mistaken about the rule.
You might be. Sunny 16 is a "rule of thumb" and not really a rule. The basic convention assumes the sun is directly overhead with zero cloud cover or haze. I live at latitude 46įN and we only experience those conditions at midday during the summer months. Most other times, we are "Sunny 11" or "Sunny 8".

That aside, most people that say they use "Sunny 16" actually use a chart that provides exposure values (EV) for common shooting situations at common film speeds. The link below is to a very lengthy, but very helpful reference for people wishing to estimate exposure based on conditions. About half way down the page is the EV chart for common lighting situations. Further down is a table for converting EV to shutter speed/aperture at common film speeds.

Ultimate Exposure Computer


Another good reference is the Wikipedia entry on Exposure Value. It has tables and information useful for understanding how to use Sunny 16 including the daylight brightness that the "rule" is based on.

Exposure value - Wikipedia


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10-19-2020, 08:50 AM   #18
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Yes you can use the Sunny 16 Rule with 400TX film. The more you use the rule and see the feedback the better you will get at using it. So on your first time you may want do some bracketing if you really like the shot. You may also need to use a yellow, orange, polarizer or ND filter if you want to shoot at a wider apetrure sometimes. I've used that rule a lot. This time of year, depending on your geographic latitude and hemisphere, you could need to open up a stop or more for the time of year. And don't forget the time of day. At 9:00AM on a sunny day, for example, you could need more exposure then at 1:00PM. Less so if you are near the equator and more so if you live at the higher latitudes.

I have a one-degree spot meter. When I use that to meter a scene, I typically 'place' say the shadow area from a tree on grass 2-stops below the middle grey exposure. When I compare that to the Sunny 16 exposure placement of that shadow area, it can be 3-stops below the middle grey exposure. Nothing wrong with that but it's all a matter of preference on how deep you want your shadows to be for a given scene.

Last edited by tuco; 10-19-2020 at 12:36 PM.
10-19-2020, 11:20 AM   #19
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Check the exposure guide from Kodak here: https://imaging.kodakalaris.com/sites/prod/files/files/products/f4017_trix_320400.pdf

There used to be guides inside of the box, where the shutter speed was 1/ISO (1/500 for Trix 1/125 fro PlusX) and then f/16 for very bright subjects (beach, snow, water), f/11 for normal exposure in full sun , f/8 for cloudy day (soft shadows) f/5.6 for cloudy day (no shadows), etc
Something like:

10-19-2020, 01:05 PM   #20
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An important note: With film you're stuck with the loaded film's ISO. Tri-X wouldn't be a good choice of film if anticipating a bright, sunny day. Better to chose a film with a lower ISO to regain more versatility in speed and aperture settings. ISO 100 might be a better choice. Or carry a (mmm, 4-stop?) neutral density filter as recommended above.

If planning to shoot in varying lighting conditions choose film cassettes with 12 or 24 exposures so you can respond to changing conditions without wasting (too much) film. You can also 'hand-load' short cassettes from bulk film. There are tricks for swapping film in mid-roll but . . . you'll only try THAT once!

The ability to change ISO at will is one economical advantage of digital cameras.
10-19-2020, 05:55 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by nickthetasmaniac Quote
I have corrected the above table. Hopefully that makes sense?
Thank you so much. I figured out after understanding the rule, that what I wrote was wrong.
Thank you for correcting it.

And I do understand it now. Just need to try it out.

---------- Post added 10-19-20 at 06:08 PM ----------

Having read all of your comments, I came to a distinct conclusion. I need to try it and see what the result is, and try again. There seem to be no real answer but more or less guidelines to help me achieve a good photo.

My light meter in the camera seem to be working well, and I bought the MylightmeterPRO for IOS to see how that works as well. I will maybe eventually get a real light meter, but for now will try with what I have. (I do have a compact digital camera that can shoot manual too, so might try that too)

I will take proper note of every single shot I take to learn from them.

All your amazing comments have been and are very helpful to me.

It made me want to take photos even more.

Thank you so much...
10-19-2020, 09:31 PM   #22
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I do have another (beginner) question, now that I understand the sunny 16 rule. BUT, what time during the day is that rule best applied? noon? 2pm? Or between what time and what time?

Sorry for the troublesome questions.
10-19-2020, 10:56 PM - 1 Like   #23
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The f stop you choose has to do with the amount of light not the time of day. If itís an f16 time, itís almost certainly going to be noonish on a cloudless summer day. But an early evening, an early morning, a winter day, a very cloudy day (whatever the time) can all be f8 or an f5.6 times.

10-19-2020, 11:01 PM - 1 Like   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Harbaror Quote
I do have another (beginner) question, now that I understand the sunny 16 rule. BUT, what time during the day is that rule best applied? noon? 2pm? Or between what time and what time?

Sorry for the troublesome questions.
Generally within an hour either way of the highest point of the sun in the sky (brightest time of day).
10-20-2020, 12:59 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Harbaror Quote
I do have another (beginner) question, now that I understand the sunny 16 rule. BUT, what time during the day is that rule best applied? noon? 2pm? Or between what time and what time?

Sorry for the troublesome questions.
Around midday, but it also depends on where you live (latitude)
10-20-2020, 07:51 AM - 1 Like   #26
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Two thoughts on working with Sunny Sixteen:

Just in case you haven't noticed, the aperture and shutter speed clicks' on your lens and camera are not 'whole stops', but are typically 1/3-stop intervals. It's sort of like knowing the multiplication tables; if you're not familiar with 'em it's very easy to make mistakes in selecting equivalent exposure intervals. A search on 'f-stop charts' offers many cheat sheets like these.


There's a useful exercise that's a PITA on film but becomes a quick and inexpensive project with digital camera technology. Build a comprehensive Sunny Sixteen matrix using whatever variables factors you prefer on paper -- that helps to stay organized and to troubleshoot and understand the inevitable mistakes.

E.g., a chart that fixes the ISO or light conditions and steps through equivalent apertures and speeds. Or one that fixes aperture and/or speed and changes ISO for a given light condition, etc. Each question you have about exposure can be expressed as a charted exercise.

With film, the delay in darkroom processing before seeing the results was frustrating. Opening an SD card in a browser with side-by-side image comparison and histogram cues is immediately enlightening.

Don't be surprised if supposedly equivalent exposure settings aren't absolutely exact, especially at the far ends of the dial; the mechanical monkey-motion of camera innards isn't always precise. Discovering those variances in your gear and building individual calibration charts for bodies, lenses and light metering systems is part of the 'fun'.

Use mid-morning north sky light on a clear day as a good light calibration reference for metering systems of all sorts. Old selenium cell light meters often have a mind of their own regarding light conditions but can be used effectively if calibrated to a personal standard.

The key to all is having a WRITTEN PLAN before you start. Without that you'd best add a white cane to your gear bag.
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10-20-2020, 08:10 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lhorn Quote
In my brief experience with Sunny 16 testing out my Spotmatic with a broken meter, I'd agree with pschlute that Sunny 16 would have underexposed. In northern California on a sunny cloudless, couldn't be brighter day, my other cameras were telling me f11 or wider. Maybe closer to the equator, but I don't think where I live f16 would expose correctly.
Yes, Sunny 11 is often closer to the mark under most sunny day conditions. To get a full f16 over the shutter speed closest to ISO rating, you have to have an absolutely clear day, with very clear atmospherics. And the earth has to be at its closest to the sun - which is actually in January, I am told.

Around here, in Ontario, with a very clear crisp January day, I can get my light meter to show a fully Sunny 16 reading. About any other time, a half stop to a full stop is usually required.
10-20-2020, 08:59 AM - 4 Likes   #28
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Sunny 16 Rule examples with a Fuji GSW690III that has no light meter, half-stop apertures and full-stop shutter speed options.

Rollei Retro 80S @ EI 50. Bright conditions like this I stopped it down 1-stop from the rule, f16 @ 1/125th. It could have been stopped down more.





Fuji Pro 400H, f16 @ 1/250th





Kodak 400TMY, opened up 2 stops from the rule for overcast day, f16 @ 1/125th





Ilford PanF+, added a stop for time of day


10-20-2020, 09:18 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
Fuji Pro 400H, f16 @ 1/250th
I think I know, but what is the explanation for one stop over on this one?


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10-20-2020, 10:06 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by pacerr Quote
The ability to change ISO at will is one economical advantage of digital cameras.
Given how cheap film bodies can be, the really economical advantage is to have several bodies loaded with different films! You might need to start doing some weight-lifting to get in training though...
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