[Vendee]

Womble makes a very good point about mechanical vs electronic bodies. I rarely use my K1000 but I'm keeping it in case the electrics go tits up on my MX/ME Super/MV.

I think the demand will be sustainable in the medium term because film manufacturers think it is worth investing in new lines after years of decline.

[Lord Lucan]

I rarely use my K1000 but I'm keeping it in case the electrics go tits up on my MX/ME Super/MV.

Keep the MX and sell the K1000 on Ebay, they fetch silly high prices now. Your MX is entirely mechanical except for the meter, like the K1000, and is a superior camera.

[Vendee]

Keep the MX and sell the K1000 on Ebay, they fetch silly high prices now. Your MX is entirely mechanical except for the meter, like the K1000, and is a superior camera.

I'm not selling any of them but just out of curiosity, I checked K1000 and MX completed listings on ebay. The MX seems to fetch around £130 and the K1000 around £100. I paid £4 for my K1000 at a car boot sale about 12 years ago so it doesn't owe me anything

[Reciprocity]

If we could predict the future we'd be rich... If we make the assumption that the demand for, and interest in, analogue photography continues at a rate sufficient to keep film manufacturers in business, the issue then becomes the equipment. At the moment, supply of old film cameras outstrips demand. BUT they are becoming increasingly unreliable. 1980s electronics have the unfortunate habit of dying. Those parts are essentially unrepairable. Ironically, older, all mechanical cameras may well be repairable. As 3D printing in brass becomes increasingly common, it may well be possible for key components to be replicated. My 1947 Kershaw Raven has recently been refurbished with a new set of leather bellows, whereas the MZ-something-or-other I bought a few years ago sits on my desk at work as an ornament having never worked from the moment I got it. The immediate need, therefore, are good repair technicians. It is good to see that companies like "Camera Rescue" in Finland are training-up new generations of repair techs. In the very long term, getting working SLRs may well become an issue.

At the moment, however, I cannot see any major camera manufacturer having got out of film, starting-up again. They are competing with the very equipment they made 20, 30... hell 60 years ago. Pentax, as one of the small players these days, cannot afford to gamble in this way. They really need to concentrate on producing new models within their existing line-up. The delay in releasing the K-3III is not doing them any favours, and the lack of new models of the K-1 and the 645D/Z has also elicited comment from the wider photographic world. The company needs to focus on what they are good at, and get on with it.

It is true that the electronics are the first parts to die. And if it is all mechanical it oulasts mostly every more recent digital camera. I have an Exakta in still working order, 60 years old. No light meter in it only mechanics. Apparently the newer Leica's suffer from the same problem: M6 TTL has a corrosive lightmeter and Leica doesn't repair it anymore.

[ChrisPlatt]

It's too bad Kobayashi-san stopped production of film cameras a few years ago.
His Cosina Voigtlander camera bodies now sell for more used than when new.

We can only hope he kept all the tooling...

Chris

[pres589]

It's too bad Kobayashi-san stopped production of film cameras a few years ago.
His Cosina Voigtlander camera bodies now sell for more used than when new.

We can only hope he kept all the tooling...

Chris

I did a bit of quick research of the Ziess Ikon RF cameras over the weekend and it seems like those have jumped in value. They seem like nice cameras and maybe even better than the late Bessa's.

At some point someone is going to sell another SLR but who knows what it will be or when it shows up. It wouldn't shock me if Cosina is involved one way or another.

[ChrisPlatt]

Like the Rollei 35 RF before it the Zeiss Ikon was made by Cosina.

For quality 35mm film cameras - other than Leica - Kobayashi was the "last man standing".

Chris

[Tony Belding]

Well, I think a new Pentax film SLR would be a great idea. I'd be right in line to buy.

Of course, just like with any new or different idea, there's always a peanut gallery ready to pounce and explain all the reasons why it can't work and it would be stupid to even try. The only thing dumber would be if Kodak were to bring back color slide fim, har har! Oh, wait. . . *Ektachrome*

We're in a situation now where more and more film is being produced and sold and shot year over year, and the trend has been going for some years with no end in sight. Meanwhile, the supply of old film cameras continues depleting, with prices bid up higher and higher on eBay, and aging cameras failing in ways that are impractical to fix. If both of these trends continue, something's gonna have to give. Somebody's gonna have to start making new film cameras.

This is where Pentax could plant their flag, make their statement, generate some buzz.


I was just looking at that YouTube video, the one that seems to have kicked off this discussion. I saw several comments about people wanting the K-1000 to come back and sell for $200, which just makes me want to bury my face in my hands. If Pentax do this, they ought to produce a modern, full-featured camera that works with all the same lenses as the K-1. Make it part of the product line, not a novelty item.

[Lhorn]

The only way I could see it happening is if another party bought or leased tooling from Pentax for a well known body like the LX or K1000 (if the tooling still exists) produced them and paid Pentax for the right to use the name. In the end though, it would have to be have to be produced at a very low cost which means cringe worthy quality. There are just too many fantastic, precision, high quality used bodies out there for the few people who are willing to jump through the hoops necessary to shoot film.

[pres589]

This hypothetical 3rd party could possibly get K1000 tooling from China where it went after AOCo sold it, right? The problem would be getting the name.


And really I'd rather Ricoh somehow sell this 3rd party the tooling and IP to the XR7 if we're going to just dream about it.

[Lord Lucan]

The only way I could see it happening is if another party bought or leased tooling from Pentax for a well known body like the LX or K1000 ... produced them and paid Pentax for the right to use the name

It is dangerous for any reputable company to allow another to use their name. In a short time the other company will be printing it on sticky labels and putting it on trash. I know you have in mind that it would only be for reviving K1000s etc, but the other company would soon start finding legal loopholes or special pleading, like "We can't source these metal gear wheels any more, we have to use plastic". It would be the end of Pentax as a quality company if they did this, going down like Yashica has.

[Tony Belding]

This hypothetical 3rd party could possibly get K1000 tooling from China where it went after AOCo sold it, right? The problem would be getting the name.

And really I'd rather Ricoh somehow sell this 3rd party the tooling and IP to the XR7 if we're going to just dream about it.

I learned on a Sears KS-2, which was the rebranded XR7, and I still have very warm feelings toward it. I don’t have that original camera anymore, since I sold it for peanuts on eBay during my “film is dead and ain’t coming back” phase. Since then I’ve gone back to eBay and picked up two KS-2s and a XR7. One of them failed completely, and neither of the remaining two are 100% functional. Sad fact is, they’re 35+ years old, and Father Time has taken a hammer to them. None of them show signs of heavy use. They just don’t age well.


Would I buy a new-with-warranty XR7? Well, probably yes, because I’m a sucker that way. However…

I think it would be a mistake to bring back a design from the manual-focus era. Most people seem to be asking for the K-1000, and that would be just as big a mistake IMHO. As soon as a new K-1000 (or similar) hit the market, it would be competing directly with all those old surviving cameras. At the same time, the cry would come up all over the interwebs: “How dare they charge $700 for this? It’s an outrage! This old and simple design should sell for $200 at most!” And Ricoh management would be crying because they would have to charge $900+ to actually make any decent margin on it.

Do you know what I paid Sears for my original KS-2? As near as I can remember it was $800, which would be roughly $2,000 in today’s dollars. Well, that $800 might have included one or more lenses; I can’t remember exactly that far back. It definitely wasn’t cheap, either way.


Oh yeah, there would be the scramble for vintage lenses on eBay, which would add nothing to Ricoh’s bottom line.

What I would really like to see is something with a basic layout like the ZX-5n, but with improved build and updated electronics. It’s the camera that Fujiflm copied their control scheme from, and for good reason! When I went to a flea market, tractor pull, events of that sort, the ZX-5n was always a hero camera. It may sound trite, but it just did its thing so seamlessly that I didn’t have to think about it.


A new camera of this format could sell those Limited lenses, too. That would be good for the bottom line.

Anyhow, the whole discussion is almost certainly moot. I don’t have any inside line on Ricoh–Pentax, but I think I can make a decent read on how things work over there. I just don’t think they have the gumption to try something like this. They are risk-averse, inside-the-box thinkers who just want to keep on doing what they are already doing.

[pres589]

I've had good luck with my XR7; two years of ownership (maybe 2.5?) and I take it on trail runs in a backpack in a big lens pouch. It's been great so far.


If it does die I've always got some Chinons around to play with, and my MX, but the XR7 seems the best of the bunch overall. Hard to compete with these old bodies. Agreed on the ZX-5n being the kind of body Ricoh should copy if they did go down this path. Maybe someday...

[TwoUptons]

Yeah, when I want to shoot to have fun, I take something manual and mechanical.

When I want to make sure the photos come out, I take a ZX-L because the meter is great, the AF works, and it talks to any flash and K-mount lens I have.

That said, I get a pretty good keeper rate with the antiques...

But Ricoh won't make something antique... it's no good if they sell a body that only a half-dozen or so of their current lens lineup would work on... it would need to be automated.
And people would lose their minds if it came with a crippled mount like the DSLRs.So we're back to a $2,000 ZX-L... and I paid $16 for my last one...

-Eric

[Reciprocity]

Just wondering; Did Pentax ever develop a (non-automatic) camera with a polaroid back? That would seem fun as well. I saw that there are people who are trying to modify or develop instant (and Instax-)backs for Hasselblad but a Pentax with such a contraption would be great.