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11-28-2020, 12:03 AM - 4 Likes   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by tonyzoc Quote
I think Pentax should shrink their lineup and drop the low end K-70. They should have the 645Z, K-1II, the K-3III and the KP. Future cameras and lenses should be of the highest quality.
I think Pentax should do the exact opposite. They need to strengthen their entry-level offering so more beginners buy into the system. Almost all my students buy Canons and Nikons and invest in lenses as they start signing-up for my advanced courses. Once they have a few lenses it doesn't make sense to switch systems.

11-28-2020, 12:05 AM - 1 Like   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Reciprocity Quote
Indeed.But still. What about a Pentax rangefinder? With the tiny lenses of the Pentax auto 110? A (cheaper) competitor to Leica?
110 lenses wouldn't really work out for the image quality and frame coverage of a35mm camera (which I assume you are talking about). And the lenses would need to be farther from the film than on the 110, which would mess with infinity focus.
11-28-2020, 04:39 AM - 1 Like   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Reciprocity Quote
has Pentax ever decided to relaunch a new ANALOG camera?
I note you use the word "ever". If they had decided to relaunch one in the past then we would have seen it, and we have not. The nearest thing to that was keeping the K1000 (technically a 1960s design) in production for years after its sell-by date.

As for a relaunch today (some people still clamour for the K1000) it won't happen. There has been a rumour about a new/relaunced Pentax film camera, fuelled by some YouTubers seeking clicks. But it is fake news that seems to been based on the Pentax publicity videos about the K3 iii, which happened to show some cameras from Pentax's venerable history.

There is no way Pentax will start making a film camera again. They are a small cash-strapped company (yes, I know, a division of Ricoh, but they still have to budget) that just could not afford the investement. You cannot just start making a K1000 (for example) again at the drop of a hat. New production lines would need to be set up, workers would need extensive training (those old cameras used a lot of hand assembly), and the subcontractors who supplied some of the parts (shutter, meter) would demand a large amouts of money to restart their production for an uncertain market, or more likely simply refuse to. An entirely new film camera, using otherwise modern tech and robotic assembly, would probably require even more investment up front.

And all this would be for the benefit of a tiny market (film cameras), within a shrinking camera market, in which the used sector is already vastly over-supplied for the demand - look at Ebay. A K1000 cost about £150 new in the UK in the mid 1980s, the equivalent of £550 today, but at the time the capital investement costs of the K1000 had long been recovered. I would be surprised if they could make new ones for less than £2000 today.

The undeniable revived interest in film cameras is partly rooted in the patina and antique quality of old film cameras, which a new one would lack. It is significant that Nikon discontinued their last film camera very recently. As someone else said, Leica might pull this off, but the Pentax name, sadly, is not sufficiently prestigious to do so these days, (nor are Canon. Fuji etc), even though we Pentaxians know that Pentax is hugely under-rated by outsiders.

Last edited by Lord Lucan; 11-28-2020 at 04:42 AM. Reason: Tpyo
11-28-2020, 05:40 AM - 1 Like   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Reciprocity Quote
Yes, perhaps. Would it still be 2 thirds of the price of a K70 I wonder?
While the sensor, processor, SR-system, card reader and display on the back wouldn't be needed any longer you have to introduce a new camera chassis and the film advance mechanism would have to be reintroduced (refurbishing an old design would be possible to a certain extent but some changes are inevitable, because why would anyone buy a camera new when the same camera is already available for a fraction of the price).
So you get some R&D costs and you would have to make some changes in production, there would only be a smallish number sold because it is a niche product -> 2 thirds of the price of a K70 seems reasonable to me if not even more expensive

11-28-2020, 07:29 AM - 1 Like   #20
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As others have said, producing a new SLR would be very expensive but putting an older Pentax back into production wouldn't be so costly. Something like an MX and a K1000 (built to original Japanese standards) would be a good start. Still not cheap but you would be buying something which you could expect to last over 40 years. Of course Pentax would probably have to put a couple of older prime lenses back into production too.

I doubt any of this will happen but older SLR prices are increasing quite a lot as the film revival continues so maybe Pentax might at least consider it.
11-28-2020, 08:35 AM - 1 Like   #21
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I think new film camera is not coming back anytime soon from major manufacturer.
By the way they could offer some kind of service to repair and restore old gear (even the electronics)
Having a pentax 67 restored by pentax could be expensive but a feasible and nice to have.

11-28-2020, 08:49 AM - 1 Like   #22
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I think Pentax would be between a rock and a hard place if they ever decide a 35mm film SLR would be a good addition to their lineup.

The kind of camera for which there would be the most demand would be a traditional manual SLR like the good old K1000. Trouble is, a mechanical body like the K1000 needs lenses with an aperture ring - and Pentax no longer makes a full lineup with them.

So, do they re-introduce lenses with aperture rings to support a niche film body? Or do they go electronic body control so the camera could work with all D-FA lenses, and end up with a camera with much less retro appeal?

Neither option works until all those lovely vintage film bodies wear out and demand for new ones spikes heavily.

11-28-2020, 08:50 AM - 1 Like   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by builttospill Quote
I think Pentax should do the exact opposite. They need to strengthen their entry-level offering so more beginners buy into the system. Almost all my students buy Canons and Nikons and invest in lenses as they start signing-up for my advanced courses. Once they have a few lenses it doesn't make sense to switch systems.
They tried that for 40 years and it didn't go so well. It's not the 1980 where every instamatic owner buys an SLR. The market has shrunk dramatically. There will always be a market for quality. Low end cameras are what Konica, Minolta, Chinon, Miranda and so many others failed at. Pentax should be trying to compete with Leica. As I recall in the 1970-80s most of the stores were carrying Nikon and Canon and most of the sales were to them. The only way that path works (and it a maybe at best) is if Ricoh buys Nikon or Canon.

11-28-2020, 08:57 AM - 1 Like   #24
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If they did this, and I doubt in the extreme they're even idly contemplating such a product, it would need to be a KAF4 equipped body. Anything less than that would be a move backwards as you couldn't use their latest glass on this new body. The best to hope for in this not-happening situation is that the aperture ring coupling comes back to un-cripple the mount to better support pre-A glass.


It would probably have to be build on the K-1's chassis just to get enough space for the battery as well as the film spools like the MZ-S was built.


I think it would be amazing to get to use 2020's best SLR glass with film but the body I'm describing doesn't really appeal to me. If it did I'd be buying a Nikon F100 or similar and a collection of modern F mount glass. I like manual focus glass and bodies too much to get that excited about this.
11-28-2020, 09:14 AM   #25
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I have an absolutely wonderful ZX-5n that I have stopped using. It's a remarkable camera and should be being used by someone. But I can't bring myself to sell it because it is virtually valueless on the market as few people want film cameras anymore. In that kind of environment, how can Pentax, already in a shrinking market, justify making a new film body
.
11-28-2020, 09:48 AM   #26
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Who is going back to 35mm film. It doesn't make sense. Many film photographers now digitize their negatives by scanning them.
11-28-2020, 05:02 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by rodcy Quote
Who is going back to 35mm film. It doesn't make sense. Many film photographers now digitize their negatives by scanning them.
A surprisingly large number of people. Many film retailers and developing labs have opened up over the last couple of years. Still a small niche, but much bigger and healthier looking than it was 10 years ago.
11-28-2020, 10:33 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by leekil Quote
110 lenses wouldn't really work out for the image quality and frame coverage of a35mm camera (which I assume you are talking about). And the lenses would need to be farther from the film than on the 110, which would mess with infinity focus.
Well, I mean: a kind of small lenses with high quality. Like Leica.

---------- Post added 11-28-20 at 10:34 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by womble Quote
A surprisingly large number of people. Many film retailers and developing labs have opened up over the last couple of years. Still a small niche, but much bigger and healthier looking than it was 10 years ago.
Yes, absolutely, I notice the same locally.

---------- Post added 11-28-20 at 10:38 PM ----------

Maybe they should make a hybrid version film/digital. That would be quite something but I don't think it is feasible.
11-29-2020, 07:20 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Reciprocity Quote
has Pentax ever decided to relaunch a new ANALOG camera?
Because I got interested again in photography in general and my old analog Pentax in particular because of 'lomography' and the like, and I have noticed that analog film never went away completely...like vinyl records perhaps.
And the additional question: what kind of analog camera should it be?
I'm thinking myself of an analog 6x6 SLR, like a Hasselblad, but of course a Pentax one.
Why should a company make losses with a new product, which can be only sold in low quantities and only selected regions/areas?
Without a market big enough to bring in development costs, losses are the result.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_(economics)

Remember, after 14 years of production even Nikon did stop the F6 last month:

Template:Nikon film SLR cameras - Wikipedia
Nikon F6 - Wikipedia

And if you just want a SLR, the second hand market for used cameras is huge.
Especially in Japan. Why should any company produce new copies?

The MZ-S is very good. And there are recent copies sold as well as copies even with the original box.
Pentax MZ-S with hard-to-find grip and Pentax-F 35-70mm f 3.5 macro lens - PentaxForums.com
Pentax MZ-S - PentaxForums.com
11-29-2020, 10:55 AM - 3 Likes   #30
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If we could predict the future we'd be rich... If we make the assumption that the demand for, and interest in, analogue photography continues at a rate sufficient to keep film manufacturers in business, the issue then becomes the equipment. At the moment, supply of old film cameras outstrips demand. BUT they are becoming increasingly unreliable. 1980s electronics have the unfortunate habit of dying. Those parts are essentially unrepairable. Ironically, older, all mechanical cameras may well be repairable. As 3D printing in brass becomes increasingly common, it may well be possible for key components to be replicated. My 1947 Kershaw Raven has recently been refurbished with a new set of leather bellows, whereas the MZ-something-or-other I bought a few years ago sits on my desk at work as an ornament having never worked from the moment I got it. The immediate need, therefore, are good repair technicians. It is good to see that companies like "Camera Rescue" in Finland are training-up new generations of repair techs. In the very long term, getting working SLRs may well become an issue.

At the moment, however, I cannot see any major camera manufacturer having got out of film, starting-up again. They are competing with the very equipment they made 20, 30... hell 60 years ago. Pentax, as one of the small players these days, cannot afford to gamble in this way. They really need to concentrate on producing new models within their existing line-up. The delay in releasing the K-3III is not doing them any favours, and the lack of new models of the K-1 and the 645D/Z has also elicited comment from the wider photographic world. The company needs to focus on what they are good at, and get on with it.
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