[Russell W. Barnes]

I don't think Ricoh should make a new film camera, but maybe in 30 years, some manufacturer will see a market for folks who want a 'new' retro camera. Maybe film makes a modest comeback the way vinyl records have.

Have any of the film manufacturers ever thought of producing a new 35mm (or 120) camera? After all, film manufacturers and camera manufacturers form the perfect symbiotic relationship. Or is film manufacture regarded as an adjunct to more mainstream chemical manufacture: a 'by-product', if you like, that will still make money serving those with existing film cameras, for now?

If I were a bullet manufacturer, I'd prefer it if someone made guns or I'd have to start making them myself.

[Lowell Goudge]

I voted no, because since starting photography over 40 years ago, I have never sold anything, I have a KX, (not K-x) a Ricoh XR2s with winder, which has identical view finder layout to the KX, a PZ1 which is an excellent camera in all regards, plus my 5DSLRs, along whit a ton of lenses.

I don’t need a new film camera I have enough thanks.

For me, film now is B&W, I shot it back in the 80’s and I still enjoy the look of B&W film, I especially shoot B&W in low light, with high ISO. If I want a fine grainless image I will process digital shots, but there is a look to a true push process film shot you can’t get.

Final processing is done on scans of the negatives not print, as I sold my darkroom when I went digital (oops)

[nickthetasmaniac]

As an aside, it's always interesting when threads from the Film sub-forum spill out to the 'other' PF members... One might even think there's folk around who believe everyone shoots digital these days!

[Vendee]

As an aside, it's always interesting when threads from the Film sub-forum spill out to the 'other' PF members... One might even think there's folk around who believe everyone shoots digital these days!

What's this "film"?????? are you trying to tell me that daguerreotype is dead?

[Parallax]

As an aside, it's always interesting when threads from the Film sub-forum spill out to the 'other' PF members... One might even think there's folk around who believe everyone shoots digital these days!

One might also think that there are folk who think that film shooters are such an elite group that no one else should post in "their" forum.

[gatorguy]

It would be interesting to know how many film cameras are being bought these days to be used, or sit on a shelf in a collection. If the latter, people are prepared to pay a premium for a future investment payout, or to keep history alive for themselves. If the former, they are members of an ever dwindling club of photographers that requires hard copies of their photographs....

Sadly, every dollar spent on remaking past technologies would be a wasted investment on the future IMO........

That's a thoughtful comment without any easy answer.

I'm in the process of restoring my old K1000 to shooting condition. I probably won't use it a LOT, but my plans are to certainly use it. I've no idea if there's many others who have old cameras doing the same, but I suspect most exist in a closet, a curiosity for young family members if they even notice them.

My wife and I have a cedar chest filled with albums of family pictures, and hundreds of assorted "memory" images along with historical ones. While we don't often reflect on them it's always a special evening when we do. The allure of an old photo never goes away for us. We can hold it in our hands and see it for what it is, appreciate details and expressions and reflect on memories that too few of my digital shots can equal.

Personally I've long felt there's not much interest at all anymore in film and processes, but then I see young shooters out in a local park using old pre-DSLR's, spending time with careful composition and attention to technique. Perhaps there is a growing interest in film among the younger photographers, which I suppose wouldn't be all that surprising. With so much AI and OTT processing of smartphone images, and now spilling over to our changeable lens camera shots, I'd like to think that at least some significant segment has recognized the craft that's always been involved up until the past decade or so. So much over-processing, and without thought to the photograph itself and what it was meant to capture! I'd be hopeful a few of them are looking for a more pure experience.

Film is far more likely to mold you into a photographer than a Sony A7 IMO. I remember a recent thread we had here from a photography teacher in a public school who only permitted film cameras in class. That's wonderful! How better to learn focusing techniques, how the light plays off different surfaces in different situations, developing a photographer's eye for composition. How aperture affects ISO affects DOF and effects shutter speed. Force them to consider the entire image and their settings meant to capture it before clicking the shutter. Only so many tries when you have a roll of film so get it right. "One of that burst of twelve might be OK" requires so little planning and skill.

The supply of old bodies may be sufficient enough in quality and quantity that it's just not investment-worthy for any traditional camera maker to introduce a new body, but I'd like to think it is.

[EssJayEff]

Film is far more likely to mold you into a photographer than a Sony A7

I wonder if daguerreians said this in comparison to wet collodion; if wet collodion photographers said this in comparison to dry plates; if dry plate photographers said this in comparison to film? I know that is not an apples-to-apples question, but transitions from one technology or process are often (usually?) uneven. Some decline to adopt the new, some embrace the new and forego the old, while others enjoy the offerings of old and new. I'm in the second category; I believe, however, that exploring either of these approaches can make you a photographer . . . just different kinds of photographers.

---

Last edited by EssJayEff; 04-22-2021 at 06:21 AM.

[Lowell Goudge]

An interesting question is if there will ever be a market for any manufacturer to produce a new 35mm film SLR camera ever again. For example, I just bought a new record player so my daughter could listen to old vinyl LPs. Once CDs/MP3s came along, I never thought I'd buy another new record player again. But I did, and it has Bluetooth, USB and built-in speakers - sure it isn't like my old hi-fi Marantz, but it was new.

I don't think Ricoh should make a new film camera, but maybe in 30 years, some manufacturer will see a market for folks who want a 'new' retro camera. Maybe film makes a modest comeback the way vinyl records have.

my camera system is spanning 40 + years of development and in the end i convert to digital for storage if it was film


my audio system is a mirror in technology to my camera system, my turn table is a 1959 gerrard transcription motor. in techno speak, a dynamically balanced 6 pound platter floating on an oil film generated by a pressurized tapered sleeve bearing using a self regulating eddy current disk brake and induction motor drive. it has a Grado Laboratory tone arm with a 1 gram contact load on the stylus.

that is the one end of the spectrum, i have a mid 1970's amplifier and FM Tuner, a late 1990's cassette recorder, a studio mixer, and a post 2000 5 disk CD player, (i used to have a 9 inch real to real deck as well but that has been retired due to mechanical failure (after digitizing all my tapes)

integrated into the system are a dual core PC with 6 terabyte hard disk, and a usb based high performance audio capture and digitizer capable of sampling dual channel up to 250 KHz, the software comes with complete editing (track selection etc...) and filters and processing to eliminate rumble wow and flutter as well as removal of the high fequency bias impressed on audio tapes, as well as declick of scratches for records.


in short my audio system can play anything, and convert anything to digital just like my cameras

[stevebrot]

Unfortunately, film is a very, very small niche market now, and the question as to whether a new film body should be made gets a " No " from me.

Across the river from my home, in the quiet* hamlet of Portland, there are no less than six brick and mortar shops dedicated in large part to film photography with four of those being exclusively so. The niche market for film photography is similar to the niche market for art supplies (i.e. painting). At some point, the demand for used film cameras will outstrip supply (they don't last forever) and a quality non-boutique maker will step into the gap. At issue at present might be availability of mechanical shutters for a purist approach.


Steve

* quiet during daylight hours at least...(potentially political statement left off)

[stevebrot]

David Hancock (dont know if he's here on the forums or not) made a great video talking about something similiar to this last year:

Film Photography's Future is its Past | Cameras and Coffee with David Hancock, 13 May 2020 - YouTube

Love that guy...I am watching the intro and had to laugh. I alternate making my coffee between pour-over, fresh press, and moka pot, but hand grind my beans.


Steve

[stevebrot]

One might also think that there are folk who think that film shooters are such an elite group that no one else should post in "their" forum.

Only when they disparage the credibility and continuation of the craft.


Steve

[TomB_tx]

As was noted in an earlier post, Leica never stopped making film cameras, last I knew both the MP (with light meter) and M-A (no electronics). The M-A (basically a modern version of the 1954 M3) was only introduced in 2014, as they found a pool of customers who longed for a classic, all mechanical, high-quality camera that would not go obsolete due to electronics.
However, even though this was basically a 50+ year-old design that required little development, there are a significant number of reports of problems, like scratching film, light leaks, etc. It's reported that all film Leica's are built by only one person at the factory. I suspect that all the accumulated, undocumented "art" of hand assembly and adjusting has been lost as the old workers retired. Even so, a part of me is tempted by a last chance to buy a new film Leica before I expire...

[stevebrot]

Even so, a part of me is tempted by a last chance to buy a new film Leica before I expire...

I know the urge and the role it played when I bought my Voigtlander R3m a few years ago. I saw the EOL announcement and placed my order the next day, having never even held a recent C/V product in my hand. Segue to this thread, the price I paid ($800 USD, body only) is approximately what I would expect for a new production mechanical shutter, metered SLR of similar construction (mag alloy over diecast alloy chassis; think Pentax MX* with updated (vertical) shutter and not a whole lot more. Too much money? I don't think so.


Steve

* ...or K-mount variant of the Bessaflex TM. Yes, the TM was metal clad over metal chassis despite what some reviewers might say.

[Huss]

As was noted in an earlier post, Leica never stopped making film cameras, last I knew both the MP (with light meter) and M-A (no electronics). The M-A (basically a modern version of the 1954 M3) was only introduced in 2014, as they found a pool of customers who longed for a classic, all mechanical, high-quality camera that would not go obsolete due to electronics.
However, even though this was basically a 50+ year-old design that required little development, there are a significant number of reports of problems, like scratching film, light leaks, etc. It's reported that all film Leica's are built by only one person at the factory. I suspect that all the accumulated, undocumented "art" of hand assembly and adjusting has been lost as the old workers retired. Even so, a part of me is tempted by a last chance to buy a new film Leica before I expire...

The M-A is actually meant to be a new M4, not M3. Kinda... as it has the M3's rewind knob but the M4's frameline selections. Kinda...
It has the quick load system which if you follow Leica's instructions (indicated on a diagram inside the film base ), is super quick to load and positive.
I can load film quicker in this than any other non auto wind camera I have (LX, MX, F3, F2 etc). Just drop in, close, wind on.

My M-A has not had any issues, nor have others that I know who use them. But I am sure that there were a few out there that had problems and the squeaky wheel gets all the attention..
No light leaks, no scratching, no uneven frame spacing etc.
It is sort of weird that these issues appeared as the camera is basically an MP with no meter. The only physical difference is no meter. And the MP has been made for years now.

[ChrisPlatt]

I find the apparent reaction from Pentax digital fans to the thought of a new film Pentax camera quite ironic.
It is not unlike that of us old filmhounds when digital became the death knell of film cameras 20 years ago.

So Pentax can't afford the risk to market an "old technology" product? Maybe they can't afford not to!

I have been waiting for some brave manufacturer to take the plunge.
I expected it would more likely be someone like Hirofumi Kobayashi of Cosina.
I wonder if he kept the tooling for the recently discontinued Bessa line of M-mount 35mm rangefinder cameras?

Chris