How to expose for highlights shadows?

titrisol · 05-10-2021, 05:02 PM

INCREDIBLE!!! great data!

Originally posted by LesDMess

I would say it's near impossible to overexpose Portra 160/400 . . . specially when you compare it to digi RAW files.

The general rule of thumb when using color negatives and b&w film is expose for the shadows because the film will take care of the rest. To be more precise, you properly expose the most critical area and the rest will fall where they may and with Portra you will have a lot of overexposure reach and some underexposure.

Since the original author wants to shoot street a +1 compensation should cover most situations in the center-average meter? or +1,5?

LesDMess · 05-10-2021, 05:33 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by titrisol

INCREDIBLE!!! great data!

Since the original author wants to shoot street a +1 compensation should cover most situations in the center-average meter? or +1,5?

In the OP's intended use, a higher shutter speed from shooting at box speed may be more desirable? The OP just won't be limited by the 1/1000 shutter speed shooting wide open with a fast lens in bright daylight conditions.

One thing to watch out for is if a lab will do the scanning they tend to overexpose and actually blowout highlights which sounds impossible but they can do it . . .

This one on Kodak Ektar 100 scanned with a minilab Noritsu machine compared to what I get from my Coolscan. I understand the premise behind these minilab scans is that most users tend to underexpose.

**MossyRocks** · 05-12-2021, 09:06 AM

Originally posted by DWS1

I was going to suggest the same thing. I think Ansel Adams and Fred Archer (movie star photographer) developed it around 1940. Still very useful today.

Even if one doesn't use it it is still a very good way to think about a scene which is another reason I mentioned it. The first time I ran across it it seemed overly complex but after gaining some experience and then going back to it later it was much more understandable. For someone who already has a good grounding in photography it should be easy to pick up on the first pass.

**John in OZ** · 05-19-2021, 04:58 AM

SIMPLE!

I just point the camera light meter (centre screen) at first, the subject, then highlights and shadows to ascertain exposure latitude to contend with and make a value judgement adjusting speed or aperture to the conditions. Stopping up or down to centre needle will give fairly good indication of exposure range. Use shadows or the highlights to best effect supporting your subject. You only have so much dynamic range depending on the film your using. Use the right film for the occasion if you can.

Sandy Hancock · 05-19-2021, 05:14 AM

I was taught to err on the side of overexposure with negative film, and underexposure with transparency film.

You can push more light through something dark, but something totally white can not be pulled.

womble · 05-19-2021, 05:27 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by LesDMess

In the OP's intended use, a higher shutter speed from shooting at box speed may be more desirable? The OP just won't be limited by the 1/1000 shutter speed shooting wide open with a fast lens in bright daylight conditions.

One thing to watch out for is if a lab will do the scanning they tend to overexpose and actually blowout highlights which sounds impossible but they can do it . . .

This one on Kodak Ektar 100 scanned with a minilab Noritsu machine compared to what I get from my Coolscan. I understand the premise behind these minilab scans is that most users tend to underexpose.

My lab tends to do that. There is rarely anything in the bottom 1/4 - 1/3 of the histogram when I look at the scan in Lightroom.

K.

tuco · 05-21-2021, 07:35 AM

I shoot 400TMY at EI 100 and under develop the film by a lot. That compresses the highlights and gives you more dynamic range. That's the Zone System. How much you can over expose and under develop that will produce a good negative is a function of both the film and the developer. Tabular grain films do well at this typically.

It was already mention, for high contrast scenes shoot 400 film at EI 200 and 100 film at EI 50 and start reducing your normal film development time until you have a good negative. Make that your high contrast condition go-to development as well as normal. And for overcast, flat light times, shoot at say box speed and add 15% or so to your development time (a mild push if you will) to expand the highlights and increase contrast.

I'd note too that BW film typically has way more dynamic range than you can reproduce. I can measure density differences on a negative up in the 2.5+ range but now way can I reproduce tonal differences at that range on the 2nd generation image if I am also recording density just above the film's base + fog on a scan.

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05-10-2021, 05:02 PM	#31
titrisol Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: In the most populated state... state of denial Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,853	INCREDIBLE!!! great data! Originally posted by LesDMess I would say it's near impossible to overexpose Portra 160/400 . . . specially when you compare it to digi RAW files. The general rule of thumb when using color negatives and b&w film is expose for the shadows because the film will take care of the rest. To be more precise, you properly expose the most critical area and the rest will fall where they may and with Portra you will have a lot of overexposure reach and some underexposure. Since the original author wants to shoot street a +1 compensation should cover most situations in the center-average meter? or +1,5?

05-10-2021, 05:33 PM - 1 Like	#32
LesDMess Pentaxian Join Date: May 2011 Location: Santa Cruz, CA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,235	Originally posted by titrisol INCREDIBLE!!! great data! Since the original author wants to shoot street a +1 compensation should cover most situations in the center-average meter? or +1,5? In the OP's intended use, a higher shutter speed from shooting at box speed may be more desirable? The OP just won't be limited by the 1/1000 shutter speed shooting wide open with a fast lens in bright daylight conditions. One thing to watch out for is if a lab will do the scanning they tend to overexpose and actually blowout highlights which sounds impossible but they can do it . . . This one on Kodak Ektar 100 scanned with a minilab Noritsu machine compared to what I get from my Coolscan. I understand the premise behind these minilab scans is that most users tend to underexpose.

05-12-2021, 09:06 AM	#33
MossyRocks Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Minnesota Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,982	Originally posted by DWS1 I was going to suggest the same thing. I think Ansel Adams and Fred Archer (movie star photographer) developed it around 1940. Still very useful today. Even if one doesn't use it it is still a very good way to think about a scene which is another reason I mentioned it. The first time I ran across it it seemed overly complex but after gaining some experience and then going back to it later it was much more understandable. For someone who already has a good grounding in photography it should be easy to pick up on the first pass.

05-19-2021, 04:58 AM	#34
John in OZ Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Ringwood, Victoria Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 348	SIMPLE! I just point the camera light meter (centre screen) at first, the subject, then highlights and shadows to ascertain exposure latitude to contend with and make a value judgement adjusting speed or aperture to the conditions. Stopping up or down to centre needle will give fairly good indication of exposure range. Use shadows or the highlights to best effect supporting your subject. You only have so much dynamic range depending on the film your using. Use the right film for the occasion if you can.

05-19-2021, 05:14 AM	#35
Sandy Hancock Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Adelaide Hills, South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,275	I was taught to err on the side of overexposure with negative film, and underexposure with transparency film. You can push more light through something dark, but something totally white can not be pulled.

05-19-2021, 05:27 AM - 1 Like	#36
womble Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Hertfordshire Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,324	Originally posted by LesDMess In the OP's intended use, a higher shutter speed from shooting at box speed may be more desirable? The OP just won't be limited by the 1/1000 shutter speed shooting wide open with a fast lens in bright daylight conditions. One thing to watch out for is if a lab will do the scanning they tend to overexpose and actually blowout highlights which sounds impossible but they can do it . . . This one on Kodak Ektar 100 scanned with a minilab Noritsu machine compared to what I get from my Coolscan. I understand the premise behind these minilab scans is that most users tend to underexpose. My lab tends to do that. There is rarely anything in the bottom 1/4 - 1/3 of the histogram when I look at the scan in Lightroom. K.

05-21-2021, 07:35 AM	#37
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,029	I shoot 400TMY at EI 100 and under develop the film by a lot. That compresses the highlights and gives you more dynamic range. That's the Zone System. How much you can over expose and under develop that will produce a good negative is a function of both the film and the developer. Tabular grain films do well at this typically. It was already mention, for high contrast scenes shoot 400 film at EI 200 and 100 film at EI 50 and start reducing your normal film development time until you have a good negative. Make that your high contrast condition go-to development as well as normal. And for overcast, flat light times, shoot at say box speed and add 15% or so to your development time (a mild push if you will) to expand the highlights and increase contrast. I'd note too that BW film typically has way more dynamic range than you can reproduce. I can measure density differences on a negative up in the 2.5+ range but now way can I reproduce tonal differences at that range on the 2nd generation image if I am also recording density just above the film's base + fog on a scan.