Rolling Shutter the Old-school way, but on a smaller scale...

swanlefitte · 09-22-2021, 09:33 PM

Lens rentals talks about rolling vs global shutter. Might be of interest to some. Lens Rentals | Blog

**TwoUptons** · 09-23-2021, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

???

You must mean curtain speed. X-sync speed provides a good estimate, 1/50s on the SV and 1/30s on the Zorki. I would think any 35mm camera having a traditional horizontal run focal plane shutter would show the effect.

Steve

Yes, based on the x-sync, the shutters don't move as quick as newer cameras...

My PZ-1p does 1/250s vertically, so that one's extra-speedy...

I expect either horizontal or vertical shutters will do it, but the horizontals have more room (36mm vs 24mm) for the slit to move...

-Eric

**TwoUptons** · 09-30-2021, 02:33 PM

OK, so I tried this out using the spinning bicycle wheel plan...

I turned a bike upside down, grabbed a tripod, and tried to shoot while the wheel was spinning about the same rate...

First, with the K1, which has a 1/200 s flash sync speed and a vertical travel.

Once at 1/50s (to match the H1a flash sync, below)...

Then once at 1/1000 (as fast, more or less, as I can get the H1a to go)

I wasn't expecting anything here due to the speed of the shutter. Nice colors from that lens, and the exposure seems right on...

Now the H1a, which has a 1/50 s flash sync and a horizontal cloth shutter, so presumably much slower travel.

First at 1/50s to see how things look with the shutter all the way open...

And once at full speed... so fast the value doesn't even show up on the shutter dial... I figure it's close to 1/750 based on the difference in exposure... and the fact the spokes have blurred into invisibility and the reflector is blurred...

The short answer? I got nothin...
The slightly longer answer? I still got nothin...
Maybe I need to get out the Graflex after all... maybe 35mm full frame is just too small to do this easily...
Or maybe I need a different subject...

Any ideas?

-Eric

stevebrot · 09-30-2021, 10:28 PM

Originally posted by TwoUptons

The short answer? I got nothin...

You bent the spokes slightly in two of the above. Slow the spin, maybe?

What you are wanting to capture is movement in the direction and same speed as the curtain slit.

Steve

photoptimist · 10-01-2021, 05:04 PM

To see the effect, you'll need to change the lighting and the background.

Ideally, the spokes must be brightly lit against as dark (and uncluttered) a background as possible.

09-30-2021, 02:33 PM	#18
TwoUptons Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 4,210 Original Poster	Well, that didn't appear to work... OK, so I tried this out using the spinning bicycle wheel plan... I turned a bike upside down, grabbed a tripod, and tried to shoot while the wheel was spinning about the same rate... First, with the K1, which has a 1/200 s flash sync speed and a vertical travel. Once at 1/50s (to match the H1a flash sync, below)... Then once at 1/1000 (as fast, more or less, as I can get the H1a to go) I wasn't expecting anything here due to the speed of the shutter. Nice colors from that lens, and the exposure seems right on... Now the H1a, which has a 1/50 s flash sync and a horizontal cloth shutter, so presumably much slower travel. First at 1/50s to see how things look with the shutter all the way open... And once at full speed... so fast the value doesn't even show up on the shutter dial... I figure it's close to 1/750 based on the difference in exposure... and the fact the spokes have blurred into invisibility and the reflector is blurred... The short answer? I got nothin... The slightly longer answer? I still got nothin... Maybe I need to get out the Graflex after all... maybe 35mm full frame is just too small to do this easily... Or maybe I need a different subject... Any ideas? -Eric

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09-22-2021, 09:33 PM	#16
swanlefitte Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Location: Minneapolis Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,068	Lens rentals talks about rolling vs global shutter. Might be of interest to some. Lens Rentals \| Blog

09-23-2021, 03:56 PM	#17
TwoUptons Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2015 Photos: Albums Posts: 4,210 Original Poster	Originally posted by stevebrot ??? You must mean curtain speed. X-sync speed provides a good estimate, 1/50s on the SV and 1/30s on the Zorki. I would think any 35mm camera having a traditional horizontal run focal plane shutter would show the effect. Steve Yes, based on the x-sync, the shutters don't move as quick as newer cameras... My PZ-1p does 1/250s vertically, so that one's extra-speedy... I expect either horizontal or vertical shutters will do it, but the horizontals have more room (36mm vs 24mm) for the slit to move... -Eric

09-30-2021, 10:28 PM	#19
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by TwoUptons The short answer? I got nothin... You bent the spokes slightly in two of the above. Slow the spin, maybe? What you are wanting to capture is movement in the direction and same speed as the curtain slit. Steve

10-01-2021, 05:04 PM	#20
photoptimist Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 5,121	To see the effect, you'll need to change the lighting and the background. Ideally, the spokes must be brightly lit against as dark (and uncluttered) a background as possible.

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