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01-03-2009, 07:35 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by tranq78 Quote
So did you buy the LX? Film camera prices seem to have stabilized, at least from what I can see. Ironic isn't it that people who buy film cameras today will at worst see only modest depreciation in value versus dSLRs which will easily lose more than 50% value within a year (ah, Moore's Law at work). Plus we'll see how well the high end dSLRs sell in this current economy -- not very well is my guess.
Hee, no, I have not, actually: I got hold of a bargain on an ME Super, which should fill the bill pretty well for the time being: especially considering I have very little Pentax glass as yet, so I can be patient, there, now. (On the presumption that I'd be paying for a CLA on whatever I got hold of, I'd been planning to go with an MX to start off with: may as well pay that for a nicer thing, so to speak, though everyone's favorite Pentax repairmans prices make that less of a concern, anyway.)

Besides, I like ME Supers, for the most part. Might be wanting more-convenient manual metering, though, (I keep thinking maybe a connection could be jumped so that the 1/2000 of a second light goes on with the 'under' one that's all the way down in the corner. )

Anyway, I'll be keeping my eyes open for film bodies... next thing I might actually worry about is something with AF, cause sometimes that's handy for me.

01-03-2009, 08:20 AM   #47
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As for *color* film, well, Kodachrome's a different matter, as it takes specialized and really expensive equipment to do, even by most color film standards: C-41 getting to the point where it was acceptable for most consumers (and no one being fond of sitting around looking at home slide shows anymore) probably was the beginning of the end there, in retrospect. I used to use slide film for the quality and consider the expense involved something of a drawback: I've always been heavier on the black and white, anyway: digital's what really brought it back into my shooting in any way.

But there we're back into the question of 'does film need mass market dominance to survive.' I think that'll prove to be about the costs. The way the economy is, I think a lot of things could happen: are there going to be smaller people and firms squeezed *out* of mass markets looking for niche markets where they can produce something for a profit? I think we could see that.

Personally, I'm less attached to using film for *color* anyway. For starters, I don't even really like the color darkroom. But as long as the film industry is using it, the stuff to make it will exist. There's too much money *right there* for it just to fade out cause there aren't any Fotomats out there anymore.
01-04-2009, 02:11 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
But there we're back into the question of 'does film need mass market dominance to survive.' I think that'll prove to be about the costs. The way the economy is, I think a lot of things could happen: are there going to be smaller people and firms squeezed *out* of mass markets looking for niche markets where they can produce something for a profit? I think we could see that.

Personally, I'm less attached to using film for *color* anyway. For starters, I don't even really like the color darkroom. But as long as the film industry is using it, the stuff to make it will exist. There's too much money *right there* for it just to fade out cause there aren't any Fotomats out there anymore.
Well, we all pretty much agree that B&W is nowhere near dead. I'll argue that there's probably profit to be made still with color film, too. Just recently, a quick trip to the local place where everything cameras can be bought showed a couple of films that are new to me and films that I thought would've been gone by now:

- EuroColor (this is new and unknown to me - I bought one for a case study)
- Konica VX100 (probably old stock, but the film itself isn't expired - is this being made new still?)
- Centuria (originally Konica's, but a quick Google showed that Konica sold the rights - and possibly manufacturing process - to some other company; this one's new also)
- Solid Gold (I have seen this brand since time immemorial, but figured that since it's a no-name brand, it should've died off with the rise of digital)
- Kodachrome (with lots in stock, all new)
- Mitsubishi (I thought this brand died out some time back, too)

I might simply be misinformed with those products, being a newcomer to film (at least, newcomer to serious photography with film - I did my share of Kodak Gold films back in the day for family photos), hence my ignorance in those products. In any case, though, between those films and the usual color negatives from Kodak and Fuji alive and well, I still don't see color film dying out anytime soon.

On the B&W side, I'm seeing Ilford, Tri-X, TMax, and two brands from China, one of which doubled in price (though in fairness, the box looks classier, too) since the last time I got one for photography class in college nearly 4 years ago - Lucky film. I forgot the other brand. I think it was Shanghai or something...

QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
Hee, no, I have not, actually: I got hold of a bargain on an ME Super, which should fill the bill pretty well for the time being: especially considering I have very little Pentax glass as yet, so I can be patient, there, now. (On the presumption that I'd be paying for a CLA on whatever I got hold of, I'd been planning to go with an MX to start off with: may as well pay that for a nicer thing, so to speak, though everyone's favorite Pentax repairmans prices make that less of a concern, anyway.)

Besides, I like ME Supers, for the most part. Might be wanting more-convenient manual metering, though, (I keep thinking maybe a connection could be jumped so that the 1/2000 of a second light goes on with the 'under' one that's all the way down in the corner. )

Anyway, I'll be keeping my eyes open for film bodies... next thing I might actually worry about is something with AF, cause sometimes that's handy for me.
For myself, I think I'll keep to non-AF bodies for now. I realize that my manual focusing is weak at the moment. I'd better fix that first.

I'm still shooting for an MX, just so I'd have an all-mechanical wonder cam. I'm pretty certain the LX's electronics is bound to die at some point, and I'm not sure if it'll be easy to source spare parts for it (or if one could fabricate parts for it) later on (guys, correct me if my understanding of the LX's parts are wrong ).
01-04-2009, 08:15 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by vinzer Quote


I'm still shooting for an MX, just so I'd have an all-mechanical wonder cam. I'm pretty certain the LX's electronics is bound to die at some point, and I'm not sure if it'll be easy to source spare parts for it (or if one could fabricate parts for it) later on (guys, correct me if my understanding of the LX's parts are wrong ).
Both the MX and LX use proprietary circuitry. I had to have a new board put into on of my LX (the newest one, interestingly). Pentax's first response was that they could no longer get the part for repair, and would I like to buy a PZ-something-or-other instead.
My response was that the camera was still current and that they should be able to get parts, and that if I had to buy a replacement camera, it would have a Nikon nameplate.
Several months later, the replacement board arrived from Japan and they repaired the camera.

I had a similar problem with both my A50/1.2, where the A contact fell out and they didn't want to fix it (tried to sell me an FA50/1.4), and my A100/f2.8 Macro which was suffering from slow aperture. In this case they tried to sell me an FA100/f2.8 Macro or some such.

Each time, I had to get kind of crabby with them before they would order parts for it.

At this point, I wouldn't trust Pentax (Canada) themselves to be able to fix anything that was off warranty as far as 35mm gear goes.

01-04-2009, 09:11 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by vinzer Quote
For myself, I think I'll keep to non-AF bodies for now. I realize that my manual focusing is weak at the moment. I'd better fix that first.

I'm still shooting for an MX, just so I'd have an all-mechanical wonder cam. I'm pretty certain the LX's electronics is bound to die at some point, and I'm not sure if it'll be easy to source spare parts for it (or if one could fabricate parts for it) later on (guys, correct me if my understanding of the LX's parts are wrong ).
Hee, good going. I consider manual focusing a very elementary skill: there's times when the AF is really handy, though, with my eyes.

(Btw, the MX has all-mechanical *shutter,* right?
01-04-2009, 05:26 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Both the MX and LX use proprietary circuitry. I had to have a new board put into on of my LX (the newest one, interestingly). Pentax's first response was that they could no longer get the part for repair, and would I like to buy a PZ-something-or-other instead.
My response was that the camera was still current and that they should be able to get parts, and that if I had to buy a replacement camera, it would have a Nikon nameplate.
Several months later, the replacement board arrived from Japan and they repaired the camera.

I had a similar problem with both my A50/1.2, where the A contact fell out and they didn't want to fix it (tried to sell me an FA50/1.4), and my A100/f2.8 Macro which was suffering from slow aperture. In this case they tried to sell me an FA100/f2.8 Macro or some such.

Each time, I had to get kind of crabby with them before they would order parts for it.

At this point, I wouldn't trust Pentax (Canada) themselves to be able to fix anything that was off warranty as far as 35mm gear goes.
I haven't tried going to the local Pentax division for any warranty work, but I reckon I'd have the same problems as you did. Thanks for the info on the LX. It's a nice camera, but I wouldn't wanna be stuck with shutter speeds only ranging from 1/75 to 1/2000 if the board finally dies.

If I read stuff correctly, I think the MX's circuitry is limited to metering, right? Everything else is fully mechanical?

QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
Hee, good going. I consider manual focusing a very elementary skill: there's times when the AF is really handy, though, with my eyes.

(Btw, the MX has all-mechanical *shutter,* right?
That's what I understand. I need to confirm that, though.
01-04-2009, 07:03 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by vinzer Quote

If I read stuff correctly, I think the MX's circuitry is limited to metering, right? Everything else is fully mechanical?
This is correct.
01-06-2009, 10:16 AM   #53
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Who knows, maybe building a K mount film camera could become a hobbiest project ? Especially for the simplistic way I take pictures (all manual with just the meter of the SP-F) it would seem to be feasible.

01-06-2009, 10:56 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by HarryN Quote
Who knows, maybe building a K mount film camera could become a hobbiest project ? Especially for the simplistic way I take pictures (all manual with just the meter of the SP-F) it would seem to be feasible.
You know, with the amount of glass out there, it wouldn't surprise me if a third party picked up rights to use the K-mount on a new 35mm camera, if demand seemed to be there. Up to Pentax, really.

As I've noted in previous threads, this year we saw a double digit increase in film and processing sales at work. I have high hopes.
01-06-2009, 11:19 PM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by drewdlephone Quote
You know, with the amount of glass out there, it wouldn't surprise me if a third party picked up rights to use the K-mount on a new 35mm camera, if demand seemed to be there. Up to Pentax, really.

As I've noted in previous threads, this year we saw a double digit increase in film and processing sales at work. I have high hopes.
My understanding is that anyone can build a K-Mount camera. Pentax wanted it to be a universal bayonet, so they didn't actually patent it or some such.
01-06-2009, 11:42 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
This is correct.
Thanks for the confirmation.

QuoteOriginally posted by HarryN Quote
Who knows, maybe building a K mount film camera could become a hobbiest project ? Especially for the simplistic way I take pictures (all manual with just the meter of the SP-F) it would seem to be feasible.
It would be nice if someone gives it a go, but that takes a whole lot of precision tools and measurements to get it done. I certainly won't be able to make one even if I tried.
01-07-2009, 12:05 PM   #57
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Remember when Coke announced the demise of Classic Coke?...legions of customers bought it and recommitted to it. Today, new Coke doesn't exist...the original Coke has better market share than it had prior to that time.

With the sour economic conditions wouldn't it be interesting to see Fuji announce the end of slide film...huge sales, everyone filling the freezer etc. plus a side benefit to Fuji and Kodak both that slide shooters will recommit to the medium. So then, like Coke did, just rerelease slide film--"gosh, just keeping our customers happy. Didn't realize there was any interest in slide film..."

Will that save film in the long run? Not a chance. Could it boost profits short term? Certainly. And given the economic difficulties out there, I'd be surprised NOT to see some sort of big marketing "hail mary" in the next few months.
01-07-2009, 12:15 PM   #58
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yes

lets compare film, with coke! :ugh:
01-07-2009, 12:21 PM   #59
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Thank you for the confirmation, Wheatfield. One thing about being a classic Canon shooter is you can't count on batteries for the old meters, anyway, so you are used to kludging, hand-metering, or eyeballing it if you want to go mechanical.

(I still think someone ought to allow mercury button cells again in America. Bush said factories can dump more mercury in the Great Lakes, anyway, and these are just little things, anyway. Also, there's facilities for people to get rid of e-waste that simply didn't exist before the ban went in place. I'd sign for em, really. )
01-07-2009, 12:48 PM   #60
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Not comparing film with Coke, but pointing out how people's buying triggers can be manipulated which can then have lasting effects (there's Coke in my fridge and slide film in my freezer).

If the film makers can convince most film users to start stocking film in the freezer they will likely double or triple their sales in the short term. Then, the psychological step from fear of loss or whatever creates a recommitted buyer who will then likely buy and use more of the product as well as stocking more of it in the freezer.

Didn't realize anybody would try to overextend the metaphor. It's just marketing mumbo jumbo that has proven to be true at the highest levels of marketing--and worldwide at that. Film makers will have to do something to try to keep the till ringing. My comment simply referenced one way that could be "spun".

I think I'll add "spicy" liquid to one of those Coke's and not let Gooshin get to me--cheers!
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