Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
02-05-2009, 12:01 PM   #1
Inactive Account




Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Nanaimo, BC
Posts: 261
Controlling Color Temperatures

Hey all. I was wondering if someone can give me a rundown on how to control your "white balance" so to speak when you're shooting film. I shoot everything with daylight film (there isn't anything else available where I am), so of course some shots look better than others. Here's my observations, let me know what you think.

The Sky (1A) filter is MOST useful. I'm noticing that a lot of my shots, even without cloud cover, have a blue tinge on Ektar 100. I'm tempted to leave the 1A on all the time because of this. Are there any other outdoor color-correcting filters that are good to have? The UV (0) filters don't correct color cast, right? They only correct for UV rays... which would have me believe that sometimes it's useful to use both a UV and Sky?

Then, you go inside and everything changes. I know I need a tungsten filter for working inside under ambient lighting. Is there anything else useful for indoor photography?

Now, I know that you could just throw all your images into Photoshop and auto-white-balance out the problems (which is what I've had to do with my first roll of Ektar) but I feel this kind of defeats the whole point of going analog, and it also presents the issue that if I correct my photos, I then have to use the corrected digital copies, and the negatives become useless at that point for enlargements and reprints, because you'll get different results back.

There must be some long-time film users here. Mind if I feast on your knowledge?

02-05-2009, 12:24 PM   #2
Site Supporter
Sigmoid's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Annapolis MD (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 245
It's all about the light...obviously

Wow, this brings me back!

When I used to shoot advertizing pics indoors under "cool white" flourescent lighting, on Kodacolor 100, or the then-newly-released K100 Gold, I found that either of two filters, FL-D or 30Magenta, got the color balance close enough that genuine Kodak processing would return good values the first time.

Discount processing, which I recall as being just as good as Kodak for outdoor shots, generally didn't get the flourescent-exposed shots right without returning them for a do-over. To compensate for light loss due to the filtration, I'd sometimes add fill flash from a Morris-Toshiba manual unit covered with a green gel or improvized green plastic filter.

Another significant challenge was when both window light and flourescent light had to be accounted for in the frame. Often the best answer there was to wait until after dark to make the exposure!

Working indoors with slow film and filters on long/slow lenses, my tripod became my new best friend.

Last edited by Sigmoid; 02-10-2009 at 03:34 PM. Reason: fixed typo
02-05-2009, 01:27 PM   #3
Site Supporter
filmamigo's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Toronto
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 686
I also like the look of outdoor daylight photography using a Sky (or an Enhancing filter). Warms things up to look a bit more like how you remember!

The basics of film colour correction are the 80 and 85. Those are Kodak/Wratten filter numbers, the industry standard. They also get referred to as CTO and CTB (colour temperature orange and colour temperature blue, respectively.) I mostly hear CTO and CTB in motion picture/cinematography circles where people also discuss these in fractional grades, e.g. "I used a 1/4 CTO."

From the Tiffen site:

CAMERA FILTERS
"Color Conversion filters are used to correct for sizable differences in color temperature between the film and the light source. These are comprised of both the Wratten #80 (blue) and the Wratten #85 (amber) series of filters. Since they see frequent outdoor use, in bright sunlight, the #85 series, especially the #85 and #85B, are also available in combination with various neutral density filters for exposure control. "

The best representation of colour correction filters that I have seen is at this page:

The Finer Points of Color Correction

It also happens to give the Cokin filter numbers, in case you use that system.

Remember, your other option for colour correction is to use a film that is already balanced to your light source. Unfortunately there are less and less choices -- Kodak Ektachrome 64T being the only one that comes to mind at the moment.

KODAK EKTACHROME 64T Professional Film (EPY)


In motion picture film, it's typical to use two stocks -- one daylight balanced and one tungsten balanced -- based on what you have to shoot.

For a more subtle change in colour, like using a Sky or Enhancing filter, you can try Kodak's E100GX. It's designed as a daylight balanced slide film that renders with a warmer colour palette.
KODAK PROFESSIONAL EKTACHROME Film E100GX

Hope this stuff helps!

Dave
02-05-2009, 03:03 PM   #4
Veteran Member




Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,915
fuji has a tungsten slide film too, should be easier to find processing for it

02-06-2009, 02:53 AM   #5
Veteran Member
titrisol's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: In the most populated state... state of denial
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,098
you have basically "warm"filters (orangish), "cool" filters (bluish) and the fluorescent filters (purple, green, etc)
Check the Tiffen, Hoya and Cokin sites for samples and more details

When you are outside the sunlight tends to be blue, specially in the mountains DAYLIGHT film should counteract this.
A warm filter (81A, B or C depending on strength) can make the color more neutral, and natural. I also believe LEDS will bring this filters back.
Actually warm filters a must-have for film, for portraits and others is fantastic anyways. It can even give you that "glow"you get in the sunset.

On the other hand if you shoot indoors, the old incandescent bulbs are orangish so unless you are using TUNGSTEN BALANCED film a cool filter is needed (82A. B or C).

When shooting under fluorescent bulbs the balance is a HUGE problem since I have yet to find 2 brands of these that have the same color. Some are greenish (thus a purple filter is needed), some try to correct this and are bluish, and some are even orangish.

In all these cases auto-white balance or custom WB is eons ahead in digicams.
02-06-2009, 06:14 AM   #6
Veteran Member
Ben_Edict's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: SouthWest "Regio"
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,303
QuoteOriginally posted by drewdlephone Quote
The Sky (1A) filter is MOST useful. I'm noticing that a lot of my shots, even without cloud cover, have a blue tinge on Ektar 100. I'm tempted to leave the 1A on all the time because of this. Are there any other outdoor color-correcting filters that are good to have?
The blue colour cast changes with weather conditions. So in theory and for film production, you'ld take a reading with a colour meter and then place the matching colour correcting filter(s) (CC series) in front of your lens. In practice with a standard colour negative film this is completely unnecessary. Colour negs will be printed and the outcome of the colour on print is extremely dependend on the printer's set-up and the operator's personal perception.

If the Skylight filter gives good results for you, leave it on. I never used it except under heavily overcast conditions, because it would then add some warmth to otherwise too cool images.

QuoteOriginally posted by drewdlephone Quote
The UV (0) filters don't correct color cast, right? They only correct for UV rays... which would have me believe that sometimes it's useful to use both a UV and Sky?
No, no need for an additional UV filter, the Sky serves that purpose too.

QuoteOriginally posted by drewdlephone Quote
Then, you go inside and everything changes. I know I need a tungsten filter for working inside under ambient lighting. Is there anything else useful for indoor photography?
Besides blue correction filters (Wratten 85 or the like) in many instances a fluorescent correction filter is handy - though again: if the printer is competent, the flourescent colour cast can be removed at the printing stage . In most cases the FL-D or CCM30 - colour correction Magenta 30- (for daylight fluorescent bulbs) is best, sometimes a FL-W is better suited.

In sports arenas and other public places in the outdoors you will more often encounter mercury or sodium pressure bulbs, the last giving the heavy yellow tint. This is hard to correct as these lights have a strong line emission and there will always be some kind of residual colour cast. But for mercury lamps the FL-D should work on negative film and for sodium a heavy blue filter could be useful.

QuoteOriginally posted by drewdlephone Quote
Now, I know that you could just throw all your images into Photoshop and auto-white-balance out the problems (which is what I've had to do with my first roll of Ektar) but I feel this kind of defeats the whole point of going analog, and it also presents the issue that if I correct my photos, I then have to use the corrected digital copies, and the negatives become useless at that point for enlargements and reprints, because you'll get different results back.
You are completely on the right road, if you try to correct at the imaging stage. If you don't correct with filters in certain situations, your film will simply record different hues in a tonality different from a standard daylight shot. This can be used to enhance a certain mood, but it can also be quite disturbing, as for example some blues and greens can be indistinguishable if photographed under tungsten light. No Photoshop will recoiver colours and hues and tones, that were not recorded on film!

Ben
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
color, ektar, film, filter, filters, shots, sky, uv
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Kx (or K7) Controlling shutter speed? Coby Video and Pentax HDSLRs 28 01-06-2010 05:20 AM
Temperatures graphicgr8s General Talk 125 12-09-2009 08:59 PM
Temperatures below 0 Deg F.... clarenceclose Post Your Photos! 4 01-26-2008 10:17 PM
High kelvin Temperatures TedP Pentax DSLR Discussion 10 08-27-2007 11:16 AM
K10D and cold temperatures torge Pentax DSLR Discussion 13 01-30-2007 07:21 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:13 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top