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Asahiflex · 02-20-2009, 09:02 AM

Well, technically not a Pentax, but... I have the Asahiflex I (with correct type I 50mm f/3.5 Asahi-Kogaku Takumar) in my collection. It's not working though (it's a quite unreliable camera) but I won't blame Nobuyuki Yoshida (the designer) for that as it was his first camera, the first Japanese 35mm SLR, and Asahi's first SLR too.

Most Asahiflexes you see out there are the IIB and IIA, I have those and the IA to boot.

So maybe I have won?

Ratmagiclady · 02-20-2009, 11:03 AM

See, I don't have a chance, with a question like that.. I'm pretty sure I have a pretty early example of the Canon FT, here, though?

My real oldest thing in occasional service would have to be a Kodak Signet, but that's no SLR at all.

woof · 02-20-2009, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by Asahiflex

So maybe I have won?

Nope... in my opinion... sorry. Question was "Who has the oldest Pentax SLR ?"

The Asahi Optical Company of Japan created the Pentax line of cameras. No dispute there....

However, "Pentax" is derived from "PENTAprism refleX." The Pentax Original camera was the first to incorporate a pentaprism viewfinder and a reflex mirror system.

By definition, your Ashahiflex is NOT a "Pentax." Though it is a reflex camera, it does not have a pentaprism and therefore does not qualify either in name OR in feature/functionality as a Pentax.

On the other hand, I am only one vote and it is a technical argument. Since I am a technical manager by day, it is a natural to me... what does everyone else think..?

Seaain

straightshooter · 02-20-2009, 04:45 PM

Originally posted by woof

However, "Pentax" is derived from "PENTAprism refleX." The Pentax Original camera was the first to incorporate a pentaprism viewfinder and a reflex mirror system.

what does everyone else think..?

Seaain

Since the original question was "Who has the oldest Pentax SLR" and since the Pentax (now known as the AP) was the first "Pentax SLR" any earlier Asahi cameras wouldn't qualify. Not that they aren't great cameras and I would love to be in a position to afford examples of them.

CW

séamuis · 02-20-2009, 04:45 PM

Originally posted by woof

Nope... in my opinion... sorry. Question was "Who has the oldest Pentax SLR ?"

The Asahi Optical Company of Japan created the Pentax line of cameras. No dispute there....

However, "Pentax" is derived from "PENTAprism refleX." The Pentax Original camera was the first to incorporate a pentaprism viewfinder and a reflex mirror system.

By definition, your Ashahiflex is NOT a "Pentax." Though it is a reflex camera, it does not have a pentaprism and therefore does not qualify either in name OR in feature/functionality as a Pentax.

On the other hand, I am only one vote and it is a technical argument. Since I am a technical manager by day, it is a natural to me... what does everyone else think..?

Seaain

I agree with you Seaain, the AP is the earliest 'Pentax' based on the parameters you describe. Asahiflex's Asahiflex (heh) (man Id love to have one of those) is certainly and being a Ia the oldest Asahi Opt. Co. camera listed so far. and the oldest period? but is not a 'Pentax'. Now I dont know if the OP knows much about the history of the company and the Asahiflex that predated 'Pentax' or was in fact asking strictly about cameras from the AP and onward. but going on how the question was worded, the Asahiflex would not count, thus making your AP the oldest.

woof · 02-20-2009, 05:23 PM

Originally posted by séamuis

Now I dont know if the OP knows much about the history of the company and the Asahiflex that predated 'Pentax' or was in fact asking strictly about cameras from the AP and onward. but going on how the question was worded, the Asahiflex would not count, thus making your AP the oldest.

Right... hence the "technical" aspect of my question.

Asahiflex definitely earliest SLR made by AOHC. No doubt.

Séamuis, interesting "argument." Back a million years ago when I was an archaeologist/anthropologist, we called your argument "the native model."

Is something art if the creator of the item did not intend it to be art? African masks are often thought to be art. However, those that created them created them for ceremonial purposes and aesthetics was not part of the equation. Fully functional. Is that really art? I would contend that something is not art unless the creator intended it as art.

So you are correct: the answer depends completely upon the meaning that the OP had in mind! If he used it to mean any SLR created by the company that BECAME Pentax or spun that brand off, Asahiflex is our man!

woof!

lesmore49 · 02-21-2009, 08:54 PM

Originally posted by woof

Right... hence the "technical" aspect of my question.

Asahiflex definitely earliest SLR made by AOHC. No doubt.

Séamuis, interesting "argument." Back a million years ago when I was an archaeologist/anthropologist, we called your argument "the native model."

Is something art if the creator of the item did not intend it to be art? African masks are often thought to be art. However, those that created them created them for ceremonial purposes and aesthetics was not part of the equation. Fully functional. Is that really art? I would contend that something is not art unless the creator intended it as art.

So you are correct: the answer depends completely upon the meaning that the OP had in mind!

The OP speaks.......the following is what I mean:
If he used it to mean any SLR created by the company that BECAME Pentax or spun that brand off, Asahiflex is our man!

woof!

My 1968 S1a is not a contender....but I'm glad to see that there are so many old and older than mine...Pentax SLR's.

woof · 02-21-2009, 09:10 PM

Originally posted by lesmore49

he OP speaks.......the following is what I mean:
If he used it to mean any SLR created by the company that BECAME Pentax or spun that brand off, Asahiflex is our man!

Asahiflex it is...

woof!

lesmore49 · 02-21-2009, 10:56 PM

Originally posted by woof

Asahiflex it is...

woof!

Congratulations...wish I could say that in Gaelic....Les

Blue · 02-21-2009, 11:47 PM

Originally posted by lesmore49

My 1968 S1a is not a contender....but I'm glad to see that there are so many old and older than mine...Pentax SLR's.

Pentax began production of the S1a in 1962 and it continued until 1971.

lesmore49 · 02-22-2009, 12:28 AM

Originally posted by Blue

Pentax began production of the S1a in 1962 and it continued until 1971.

Didn't realize it was in production so long. It's a very good basic SLR camera.

woof · 02-22-2009, 04:29 AM

Originally posted by Blue

Pentax began production of the S1a in 1962 and it continued until 1971.

Question would be... what is the color of the "R" on the rewind knob. If it is Green, the camera is an early S1a and was built between 1962-1964. If Orange, it is 1964-1968.

Please see: http://www.aohc.it/slr02e.htm

This is something you will want to know because the later model had a modified mirror box to accept the f/1.4 50mm lens, whereas this is NOT a lens you will want to fit to the earlier model.

Seaain

Asahiflex · 02-22-2009, 05:19 AM

So I seem to have won indeed...

Séamuis, I do have the Ia but also the I from 1952. Maybe you misread that

There should be no older cameras. I do have some AOCo 6x15 mini binoculars made in the late 40''s (so these are engraved with "Made in Occupied Japan") and also an AOCo Trench Periscope (dated February, 1944 on the case; the trench periscope has the AOCo logo). So far, I have never seen another AOCo item from WWII, when the Asahi factory was forced to work for the ministry of war. Any of you?

woof · 02-22-2009, 05:35 AM

Originally posted by Asahiflex

So I seem to have won indeed...

Séamuis, I do have the Ia but also the I from 1952. Maybe you misread that

There should be no older cameras.

I suppose that depends on what you mean by "any."

Production of the Asahiflex I was started in February, 1952. Prior to that there were at least four (4) other Asahiflex cameras. One prototype in circa 1950 and later three fully working samples produced in about October, 1951.

woof!

lesmore49 · 02-22-2009, 09:06 AM

Originally posted by woof

Question would be... what is the color of the "R" on the rewind knob. If it is Green, the camera is an early S1a and was built between 1962-1964. If Orange, it is 1964-1968.

Please see: Screwmount

This is something you will want to know because the later model had a modified mirror box to accept the f/1.4 50mm lens, whereas this is NOT a lens you will want to fit to the earlier model.

Seaain

I didn't know that. I'll have to check it out.

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02-20-2009, 09:02 AM	#16
Asahiflex Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Netherlands Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,795	Well, technically not a Pentax, but... I have the Asahiflex I (with correct type I 50mm f/3.5 Asahi-Kogaku Takumar) in my collection. It's not working though (it's a quite unreliable camera) but I won't blame Nobuyuki Yoshida (the designer) for that as it was his first camera, the first Japanese 35mm SLR, and Asahi's first SLR too. Most Asahiflexes you see out there are the IIB and IIA, I have those and the IA to boot. So maybe I have won?

02-20-2009, 11:03 AM	#17
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	See, I don't have a chance, with a question like that.. I'm pretty sure I have a pretty early example of the Canon FT, here, though? My real oldest thing in occasional service would have to be a Kodak Signet, but that's no SLR at all.

02-20-2009, 04:36 PM	#18
woof Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: In the present Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,870	Originally posted by Asahiflex So maybe I have won? Nope... in my opinion... sorry. Question was "Who has the oldest Pentax SLR ?" The Asahi Optical Company of Japan created the Pentax line of cameras. No dispute there.... However, "Pentax" is derived from "PENTAprism refleX." The Pentax Original camera was the first to incorporate a pentaprism viewfinder and a reflex mirror system. By definition, your Ashahiflex is NOT a "Pentax." Though it is a reflex camera, it does not have a pentaprism and therefore does not qualify either in name OR in feature/functionality as a Pentax. On the other hand, I am only one vote and it is a technical argument. Since I am a technical manager by day, it is a natural to me... what does everyone else think..? Seaain

02-20-2009, 04:45 PM	#19
straightshooter Inactive Account Join Date: May 2008 Location: Forest Park, Georgia/Jacksonville, Florida Photos: Gallery Posts: 633	Originally posted by woof However, "Pentax" is derived from "PENTAprism refleX." The Pentax Original camera was the first to incorporate a pentaprism viewfinder and a reflex mirror system. what does everyone else think..? Seaain Since the original question was "Who has the oldest Pentax SLR" and since the Pentax (now known as the AP) was the first "Pentax SLR" any earlier Asahi cameras wouldn't qualify. Not that they aren't great cameras and I would love to be in a position to afford examples of them. CW

02-20-2009, 04:45 PM	#20
séamuis Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H. Posts: 5,979	Originally posted by woof Nope... in my opinion... sorry. Question was "Who has the oldest Pentax SLR ?" The Asahi Optical Company of Japan created the Pentax line of cameras. No dispute there.... However, "Pentax" is derived from "PENTAprism refleX." The Pentax Original camera was the first to incorporate a pentaprism viewfinder and a reflex mirror system. By definition, your Ashahiflex is NOT a "Pentax." Though it is a reflex camera, it does not have a pentaprism and therefore does not qualify either in name OR in feature/functionality as a Pentax. On the other hand, I am only one vote and it is a technical argument. Since I am a technical manager by day, it is a natural to me... what does everyone else think..? Seaain I agree with you Seaain, the AP is the earliest 'Pentax' based on the parameters you describe. Asahiflex's Asahiflex (heh) (man Id love to have one of those) is certainly and being a Ia the oldest Asahi Opt. Co. camera listed so far. and the oldest period? but is not a 'Pentax'. Now I dont know if the OP knows much about the history of the company and the Asahiflex that predated 'Pentax' or was in fact asking strictly about cameras from the AP and onward. but going on how the question was worded, the Asahiflex would not count, thus making your AP the oldest.

02-20-2009, 05:23 PM	#21
woof Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: In the present Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,870	Originally posted by séamuis Now I dont know if the OP knows much about the history of the company and the Asahiflex that predated 'Pentax' or was in fact asking strictly about cameras from the AP and onward. but going on how the question was worded, the Asahiflex would not count, thus making your AP the oldest. Right... hence the "technical" aspect of my question. Asahiflex definitely earliest SLR made by AOHC. No doubt. Séamuis, interesting "argument." Back a million years ago when I was an archaeologist/anthropologist, we called your argument "the native model." Is something art if the creator of the item did not intend it to be art? African masks are often thought to be art. However, those that created them created them for ceremonial purposes and aesthetics was not part of the equation. Fully functional. Is that really art? I would contend that something is not art unless the creator intended it as art. So you are correct: the answer depends completely upon the meaning that the OP had in mind! If he used it to mean any SLR created by the company that BECAME Pentax or spun that brand off, Asahiflex is our man! woof!

02-21-2009, 08:54 PM	#22
lesmore49 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Western Canada Posts: 12,350 Original Poster	Originally posted by woof Right... hence the "technical" aspect of my question. Asahiflex definitely earliest SLR made by AOHC. No doubt. Séamuis, interesting "argument." Back a million years ago when I was an archaeologist/anthropologist, we called your argument "the native model." Is something art if the creator of the item did not intend it to be art? African masks are often thought to be art. However, those that created them created them for ceremonial purposes and aesthetics was not part of the equation. Fully functional. Is that really art? I would contend that something is not art unless the creator intended it as art. So you are correct: the answer depends completely upon the meaning that the OP had in mind! The OP speaks.......the following is what I mean: If he used it to mean any SLR created by the company that BECAME Pentax or spun that brand off, Asahiflex is our man! woof! My 1968 S1a is not a contender....but I'm glad to see that there are so many old and older than mine...Pentax SLR's.

02-21-2009, 09:10 PM	#23
woof Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: In the present Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,870	Originally posted by lesmore49 he OP speaks.......the following is what I mean: If he used it to mean any SLR created by the company that BECAME Pentax or spun that brand off, Asahiflex is our man! Asahiflex it is... woof!

02-21-2009, 10:56 PM	#24
lesmore49 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Western Canada Posts: 12,350 Original Poster	Originally posted by woof Asahiflex it is... woof! Congratulations...wish I could say that in Gaelic....Les

02-21-2009, 11:47 PM	#25
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by lesmore49 My 1968 S1a is not a contender....but I'm glad to see that there are so many old and older than mine...Pentax SLR's. Pentax began production of the S1a in 1962 and it continued until 1971.

02-22-2009, 12:28 AM	#26
lesmore49 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Western Canada Posts: 12,350 Original Poster	Originally posted by Blue Pentax began production of the S1a in 1962 and it continued until 1971. Didn't realize it was in production so long. It's a very good basic SLR camera.

02-22-2009, 04:29 AM	#27
woof Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: In the present Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,870	Originally posted by Blue Pentax began production of the S1a in 1962 and it continued until 1971. Question would be... what is the color of the "R" on the rewind knob. If it is Green, the camera is an early S1a and was built between 1962-1964. If Orange, it is 1964-1968. Please see: http://www.aohc.it/slr02e.htm This is something you will want to know because the later model had a modified mirror box to accept the f/1.4 50mm lens, whereas this is NOT a lens you will want to fit to the earlier model. Seaain

02-22-2009, 05:19 AM	#28
Asahiflex Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Netherlands Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,795	So I seem to have won indeed... Séamuis, I do have the Ia but also the I from 1952. Maybe you misread that There should be no older cameras. I do have some AOCo 6x15 mini binoculars made in the late 40''s (so these are engraved with "Made in Occupied Japan") and also an AOCo Trench Periscope (dated February, 1944 on the case; the trench periscope has the AOCo logo). So far, I have never seen another AOCo item from WWII, when the Asahi factory was forced to work for the ministry of war. Any of you?

02-22-2009, 05:35 AM	#29
woof Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: In the present Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,870	Originally posted by Asahiflex So I seem to have won indeed... Séamuis, I do have the Ia but also the I from 1952. Maybe you misread that There should be no older cameras. I suppose that depends on what you mean by "any." Production of the Asahiflex I was started in February, 1952. Prior to that there were at least four (4) other Asahiflex cameras. One prototype in circa 1950 and later three fully working samples produced in about October, 1951. woof!

02-22-2009, 09:06 AM	#30
lesmore49 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Western Canada Posts: 12,350 Original Poster	Originally posted by woof Question would be... what is the color of the "R" on the rewind knob. If it is Green, the camera is an early S1a and was built between 1962-1964. If Orange, it is 1964-1968. Please see: Screwmount This is something you will want to know because the later model had a modified mirror box to accept the f/1.4 50mm lens, whereas this is NOT a lens you will want to fit to the earlier model. Seaain I didn't know that. I'll have to check it out.