My Zenitar lens won't come off my ME camera!

Erik · 03-04-2009, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by Ratmagiclady

Well, just be careful and think it through before you try attaching that lens anywhere, make sure a repeat isn't possible, even on the camera that worked OK with it before, since the lens's coupling has become bent.

About that -- am I right in thinking that my K100D Super doesn't make use of any mechanical pins or levers whatsoever when you mount a manual lens? I looked at its "crippled KAF2" mount and I don't see anything mechanical or moving.

And again, thanks to you and everyone else in this thread for the help... Very helpful forum, this.

ryan s · 03-04-2009, 01:38 PM

The bent pin isn't a huge deal...I had to bend one on a K1000 because it was really stiff when mounting a lens, any lens.

If you do break it somehow, it's pretty easy to get to it. Although I'm not sure how easy it is to find one...

That's one of the bad parts of the DSLR and why we need the Green Button with M-style lenses...there is no communication from lens to body. Nor is there a stop-down lever for M42 lenses.

Pentax: How hard would it be to bring these back???

At least you got the lens off without doing terrible damage...if you need a pic of how the lever should sit, let me know...

stevebrot · 03-04-2009, 01:49 PM

Wrong side indeed! In all likelihood the lever was damaged before you got the camera and this is not the fault of the Zenitar. How did the Zen fair? Hopefully it was not damaged beyond repair.

This damage to the body is repairable, though I would suggest a good shop with access to another body for parts. The lever attaches to a sliding ring with an attached resistance strip. A spring-loaded contact slides on the resistance strip to make the circuit for the meter. Move the ring and the metered shutter speed changes. Since alignment here is pretty critical (as you just learned), the best solution is to replace rather than just bend the damaged parts. I suspect that the same part is common to all M series bodies and maybe the K series bodies as well.

Steve

Erik · 03-04-2009, 02:04 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

Wrong side indeed! In all likelihood the lever was damaged before you got the camera and this is not the fault of the Zenitar.

This is very possible. I got it from an auction and the owner claimed to have taken a couple of rolls with it, and it was pictured with another lens than it came with, so obviously it has seen lens changes. I don't know.

Originally posted by stevebrot

How did the Zen fair? Hopefully it was not damaged beyond repair.

I don't think so. It seems okay but the aperture communication pin is bent, about as much as the one on the camera. I'm going to be very afraid to ever mount this lens on the ME ever again, though, so the Zenitar is probably a digital-only lens from now on. Which sucks, as it's so much more useful on film.

Originally posted by stevebrot

This damage to the body is repairable, though I would suggest a good shop with access to another body for parts. The lever attaches to a sliding ring with an attached resistance strip. A spring-loaded contact slides on the resistance strip to make the circuit for the meter. Move the ring and the metered shutter speed changes. Since alignment here is pretty critical (as you just learned), the best solution is to replace rather than just bend the damaged parts. I suspect that the same part is common to all M series bodies and maybe the K series bodies as well.

Too late.

I'm not the kind of guy who sends things off for repair, and besides, this body is worth so little that it's bound to not be worth it. It wasn't in great condition to begin with. I removed the mount and bent the pin back (note to self: steel is VERY strong!) Looks straight to me. I will check the metering against my K100D to see how accurate it is, though.

I have another problem now though; I removed the mount, which seemed simple enough, and when I'm trying to put it back together, I can't get the lens release button to be springy. It's really hard to explain, but as soon as I start screwing the mount back, the lens release button is all stiff. The spring is there underneath it and I don't see that I've done anything differently from how it looked when I took it apart. Huh.

Ratmagiclady · 03-04-2009, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by Erik

About that -- am I right in thinking that my K100D Super doesn't make use of any mechanical pins or levers whatsoever when you mount a manual lens? I looked at its "crippled KAF2" mount and I don't see anything mechanical or moving.

And again, thanks to you and everyone else in this thread for the help... Very helpful forum, this.

NP. And, of course, I'd forgotten, there's nothing for the pin to get stuck on on most or all Pentax D's, is there.

As for your ME's lever, it should be easy enough to get a fresh one from any old parts camera. I had been planning on getting a trashed Super and trying to do some custom-colored plates, I could probably just send you a fresh part and some extra screws if I find one. Or, maybe our favorite repairman over here has a pile of such things.

As for mounts, I've never had one of those apart. (Usually not something I want to mess with the alignment of, and on old Canons, generally unnecessary to, anyway) Anyone?

Erik · 03-04-2009, 02:30 PM

Did it. Got the mount back together properly, all that was needed was some ridiculous precision. I have even more respect for the people that built and designed mechanical SLR's now. Truly wonders of precision engineering. So, well, unless my eyes are crooked, the pin is straight enough to any reasonable standard at this point. I'm going to put my Soligor zoom (the most "disposable" lens I have) on it and see how it meters. Crossing my fingers...

This is such an adventure for me

I've never done anything more technical to a camera than change lens/film before, so...

Erik · 03-04-2009, 02:39 PM

Okay. Camera works, the lens mounts and unmounts smoothly, and I didn't kill myself in the process. It seems to meter consistently -- i.e. a full stop change of aperture corresponds to a full stop change in shutter speed in the display -- however it doesn't seem to meter correctly. The K100D suggests a shutter speed about two stops faster. I don't think this is because I just broke the camera... It was probably like this when I got it. Hmm.

Ratmagiclady · 03-04-2009, 02:53 PM

Originally posted by Erik

This is such an adventure for me

I've never done anything more technical to a camera than change lens/film before, so...

Heehee. Great.

Kind of like getting an old car you dare tinker with, isn't it? Sounds good. Mind you, that lens mount is an optical alignment part and *does* need to be just so. Hopefully it went back just the way it was.

As for your metering, have you tried that with the same lens on both cameras? And different apertures? There *can* be other metering variables, depending how these cameras meter. Particularly with M lenses on the newer DSLR's, I understand.

I think this is because of the M rather than A-or-later mount at varying apertures on the *digital* and may not have anything to do with anything being broken.

Erik · 03-04-2009, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by Ratmagiclady

Mind you, that lens mount is an optical alignment part and *does* need to be just so. Hopefully it went back just the way it was.

I'm pretty sure there's only one way it CAN go. The only gotcha was that the lens release button is positioned a little tricky in relation to a plastic ring that surrounds the inner part of the mount, but otherwise it was really straightforward. I only removed the outer part of the mount.

Originally posted by Ratmagiclady

As for your metering, have you tried that with the same lens on both cameras? And different apertures?

Hmm. Actually what I did was try the ME + Soligor 28-80 at 28 and f/8 against the K100D + 18-55 at 18 (~28mm equiv.) and f/8. Now I realize that this isn't an optimal comparison and there might be small variables not taken into account, but we're talking differences in the order of two full stops here...

EDIT and answer to the below: I just realized I have an Olympus OM-1 with a known good meter and a couple of lenses very similar to my manual K-mounts. I'm going to try comparing that to the ME.

EDIT 2: Yeah, the ME's meter is completely off its rocker. Underexposes by vast amounts and seems unpredictable. Going to probably try changing the batteries before anything else.

ryan s · 03-04-2009, 03:09 PM

I would trust the old meters more than the new ones, but it is good to compare them if you don't have another Pentax SLR around. Plus you can take a pic with the digital cam and see if it's off or not, right away.

Oops...same time posting

The more an old M style lens or M42 are stopped down on digital, the more error there will be since the meter is used to getting a reading with the lens full-open then computing what exposure it thinks is right. With the old cams, the connection is direct with M, A, and FA lenses.

03-04-2009, 02:08 PM	#35
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Originally posted by Erik About that -- am I right in thinking that my K100D Super doesn't make use of any mechanical pins or levers whatsoever when you mount a manual lens? I looked at its "crippled KAF2" mount and I don't see anything mechanical or moving. And again, thanks to you and everyone else in this thread for the help... Very helpful forum, this. NP. And, of course, I'd forgotten, there's nothing for the pin to get stuck on on most or all Pentax D's, is there. As for your ME's lever, it should be easy enough to get a fresh one from any old parts camera. I had been planning on getting a trashed Super and trying to do some custom-colored plates, I could probably just send you a fresh part and some extra screws if I find one. Or, maybe our favorite repairman over here has a pile of such things. As for mounts, I've never had one of those apart. (Usually not something I want to mess with the alignment of, and on old Canons, generally unnecessary to, anyway) Anyone? Last edited by Ratmagiclady; 03-04-2009 at 02:21 PM.

03-04-2009, 03:09 PM	#39
Erik Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Umeå, Sweden Posts: 755 Original Poster	Originally posted by Ratmagiclady Mind you, that lens mount is an optical alignment part and does need to be just so. Hopefully it went back just the way it was. I'm pretty sure there's only one way it CAN go. The only gotcha was that the lens release button is positioned a little tricky in relation to a plastic ring that surrounds the inner part of the mount, but otherwise it was really straightforward. I only removed the outer part of the mount. Originally posted by Ratmagiclady As for your metering, have you tried that with the same lens on both cameras? And different apertures? Hmm. Actually what I did was try the ME + Soligor 28-80 at 28 and f/8 against the K100D + 18-55 at 18 (~28mm equiv.) and f/8. Now I realize that this isn't an optimal comparison and there might be small variables not taken into account, but we're talking differences in the order of two full stops here... EDIT and answer to the below: I just realized I have an Olympus OM-1 with a known good meter and a couple of lenses very similar to my manual K-mounts. I'm going to try comparing that to the ME. EDIT 2: Yeah, the ME's meter is completely off its rocker. Underexposes by vast amounts and seems unpredictable. Going to probably try changing the batteries before anything else. Last edited by Erik; 03-04-2009 at 03:16 PM.

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03-04-2009, 01:20 PM	#31
Erik Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Umeå, Sweden Posts: 755 Original Poster	Originally posted by Ratmagiclady Well, just be careful and think it through before you try attaching that lens anywhere, make sure a repeat isn't possible, even on the camera that worked OK with it before, since the lens's coupling has become bent. About that -- am I right in thinking that my K100D Super doesn't make use of any mechanical pins or levers whatsoever when you mount a manual lens? I looked at its "crippled KAF2" mount and I don't see anything mechanical or moving. And again, thanks to you and everyone else in this thread for the help... Very helpful forum, this.

03-04-2009, 01:38 PM	#32
ryan s Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Madison, WI Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,383	The bent pin isn't a huge deal...I had to bend one on a K1000 because it was really stiff when mounting a lens, any lens. If you do break it somehow, it's pretty easy to get to it. Although I'm not sure how easy it is to find one... That's one of the bad parts of the DSLR and why we need the Green Button with M-style lenses...there is no communication from lens to body. Nor is there a stop-down lever for M42 lenses. Pentax: How hard would it be to bring these back??? At least you got the lens off without doing terrible damage...if you need a pic of how the lever should sit, let me know...

03-04-2009, 01:49 PM	#33
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Wrong side indeed! In all likelihood the lever was damaged before you got the camera and this is not the fault of the Zenitar. How did the Zen fair? Hopefully it was not damaged beyond repair. This damage to the body is repairable, though I would suggest a good shop with access to another body for parts. The lever attaches to a sliding ring with an attached resistance strip. A spring-loaded contact slides on the resistance strip to make the circuit for the meter. Move the ring and the metered shutter speed changes. Since alignment here is pretty critical (as you just learned), the best solution is to replace rather than just bend the damaged parts. I suspect that the same part is common to all M series bodies and maybe the K series bodies as well. Steve

03-04-2009, 02:04 PM	#34
Erik Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Umeå, Sweden Posts: 755 Original Poster	Originally posted by stevebrot Wrong side indeed! In all likelihood the lever was damaged before you got the camera and this is not the fault of the Zenitar. This is very possible. I got it from an auction and the owner claimed to have taken a couple of rolls with it, and it was pictured with another lens than it came with, so obviously it has seen lens changes. I don't know. Originally posted by stevebrot How did the Zen fair? Hopefully it was not damaged beyond repair. I don't think so. It seems okay but the aperture communication pin is bent, about as much as the one on the camera. I'm going to be very afraid to ever mount this lens on the ME ever again, though, so the Zenitar is probably a digital-only lens from now on. Which sucks, as it's so much more useful on film. Originally posted by stevebrot This damage to the body is repairable, though I would suggest a good shop with access to another body for parts. The lever attaches to a sliding ring with an attached resistance strip. A spring-loaded contact slides on the resistance strip to make the circuit for the meter. Move the ring and the metered shutter speed changes. Since alignment here is pretty critical (as you just learned), the best solution is to replace rather than just bend the damaged parts. I suspect that the same part is common to all M series bodies and maybe the K series bodies as well. Too late. I'm not the kind of guy who sends things off for repair, and besides, this body is worth so little that it's bound to not be worth it. It wasn't in great condition to begin with. I removed the mount and bent the pin back (note to self: steel is VERY strong!) Looks straight to me. I will check the metering against my K100D to see how accurate it is, though. I have another problem now though; I removed the mount, which seemed simple enough, and when I'm trying to put it back together, I can't get the lens release button to be springy. It's really hard to explain, but as soon as I start screwing the mount back, the lens release button is all stiff. The spring is there underneath it and I don't see that I've done anything differently from how it looked when I took it apart. Huh.

03-04-2009, 02:30 PM	#36
Erik Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Umeå, Sweden Posts: 755 Original Poster	Did it. Got the mount back together properly, all that was needed was some ridiculous precision. I have even more respect for the people that built and designed mechanical SLR's now. Truly wonders of precision engineering. So, well, unless my eyes are crooked, the pin is straight enough to any reasonable standard at this point. I'm going to put my Soligor zoom (the most "disposable" lens I have) on it and see how it meters. Crossing my fingers... This is such an adventure for me I've never done anything more technical to a camera than change lens/film before, so...

03-04-2009, 02:39 PM	#37
Erik Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Umeå, Sweden Posts: 755 Original Poster	Okay. Camera works, the lens mounts and unmounts smoothly, and I didn't kill myself in the process. It seems to meter consistently -- i.e. a full stop change of aperture corresponds to a full stop change in shutter speed in the display -- however it doesn't seem to meter correctly. The K100D suggests a shutter speed about two stops faster. I don't think this is because I just broke the camera... It was probably like this when I got it. Hmm.

03-04-2009, 02:53 PM	#38
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Originally posted by Erik This is such an adventure for me I've never done anything more technical to a camera than change lens/film before, so... Heehee. Great. Kind of like getting an old car you dare tinker with, isn't it? Sounds good. Mind you, that lens mount is an optical alignment part and does need to be just so. Hopefully it went back just the way it was. As for your metering, have you tried that with the same lens on both cameras? And different apertures? There can be other metering variables, depending how these cameras meter. Particularly with M lenses on the newer DSLR's, I understand. I think this is because of the M rather than A-or-later mount at varying apertures on the digital and may not have anything to do with anything being broken.

03-04-2009, 03:09 PM	#40
ryan s Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Madison, WI Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,383	I would trust the old meters more than the new ones, but it is good to compare them if you don't have another Pentax SLR around. Plus you can take a pic with the digital cam and see if it's off or not, right away. Oops...same time posting The more an old M style lens or M42 are stopped down on digital, the more error there will be since the meter is used to getting a reading with the lens full-open then computing what exposure it thinks is right. With the old cams, the connection is direct with M, A, and FA lenses.