Any sample of a 400 film pushed to 1600? BW only

SuperAkuma · 03-10-2009, 07:48 AM

Do anyone have any shot with a black and white film that was pushed 2 stop from 400 to 1600? I just want to see how much film grain it will have.

I also would like to see it pushed from 400 to 800 or even 3200.

Since I just started film, I don't know much about it. I have one question on it. Can you tell a difference between a 400 film pushed to 800 vs a film that is 800 speed native? Or a 400 pushed to 1600 vs a 1600 speed native?

Thanks for anyone who can give me some examples or answer the question.

CSoars · 03-10-2009, 08:15 AM

I posted a thread a couple weeks back. One thing with B&W, you're unlikely to find 'native' 200 or 800 speed films, and I think most anything 'fast' made by kodak or ilford (tmax/delta 3200) is of a different emulsion that usually has finer grain than 'traditional' ones such as Tri-X, so it's hard to compare.

increased grain isn't the only consideration, you'll notice the tonal range is compressed, so you'll hit pure white and black much sooner; the film doesn't support as much contrast when pushed.

This is HP5+ @ 1600
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-film-slr-discussion/52022-ilford-h...ed-1600-a.html

I've also shot some Delta 3200 (rated for 1600), and it's quite nice grain wise, but low contrast; you need to develop it longer than the box says.

Gooshin · 03-10-2009, 08:21 AM

here is 400 pushed to 1000

lithos · 03-10-2009, 08:50 AM

Ask, and ye shall receive, Akuma:

Deltax 400, +2, D-76

Tri-X, +2, D-76

Ask me if I've got any pushed three stops...

SuperAkuma · 03-11-2009, 08:56 PM

Thanks for the sample photo. Do you have any pushed 3 stops? You asked me to ask you.

k100d · 03-11-2009, 09:02 PM

heard that Neopan 1600 works well

jgredline · 03-11-2009, 10:35 PM

Is the pushing done in PP or in camera settings?

Venturi · 03-11-2009, 11:08 PM

Originally posted by jgredline

Is the pushing done in PP or in camera settings?

Both, sort of.

When you push film you set the camera 1 or 2 stops, typically, above its rated ISO. So if you have a roll of ISO400 film you would set the camera to either 400 for a 1 stop push, or 800 for a 2 stop push. You are actually underexposing the film. SHOOT THE ENTIRE ROLL THIS WAY.

Then during the developing stage of processing the film you, or a competent lab, leave the film in the developer for extended time to compensate for the underexposure.

Pull processing (shooting at a lower ISO setting than the film's rating) is just the opposite - less time given in the developer. There's not much call for pull processing though because you don't have nearly as much latitude in dynamic range overexposing film as underexposing. Maybe if you were doing a high-key shoot it would be appropriate???

lithos · 03-12-2009, 02:23 AM

Originally posted by Venturi

So if you have a roll of ISO400 film you would set the camera to either 400 for a 1 stop push, or 800 for a 2 stop push. You are actually underexposing the film. SHOOT THE ENTIRE ROLL THIS WAY.

Tri-X is the notable exception to this - the developing times for ISO 800 are exactly the same as those for ISO 400 (altough Venturi is just providing a general example).

It's fairly easy to do, push processing, and not really harder than normal processing, although it's a bit more sensitive to time and temperature fluctuations, as there's less latitude.

Sure, there are high-speed films out there - TMZ P3200, Delta 3200 and Neopan 1600, but all these (while still being high-speed), aren't really at their given box speed.

For example, TMZ 3200 is really around ISO 1250. You'll notice that on the boxes of all these films they'll call what you think is the "ISO" rating the "EI" (exposure index) rating, mean you're not shooting the film at its true speed.

Why do I mention this? Because while some people like using high-speed film for their work, often you'll get similar results if you just push 400 ISO film.

pasipasi · 03-12-2009, 05:36 AM

Flickr is pretty good for finding examples from different lenses, films etc, and here is about 1400 pictures from the search 'tri-x pushed 1600'. Pretty good results pushed I think.

edit: forgot the link

Nachodog · 03-12-2009, 06:49 AM

What's the general rule when it comes to extending developing times when pushing a film? Is it mostly trial and error? Is the time/ISO relationship linear?

Gooshin · 03-12-2009, 06:50 AM

Originally posted by Nachodog

What's the general rule when it comes to extending developing times when pushing a film? Is it mostly trial and error? Is the time/ISO relationship linear?

each film comes with a "data" sheet, that sheet will list instructions for push processing depending on set of chemicals used.

Venturi · 03-12-2009, 07:05 AM

Originally posted by lithos

Tri-X is the notable exception to this - the developing times for ISO 800 are exactly the same as those for ISO 400.

...

Sure, there are high-speed films out there - TMZ P3200, Delta 3200 and Neopan 1600, but all these (while still being high-speed), aren't really at their given box speed.

I did not know that. Good info, thanks!

Venturi · 03-12-2009, 07:08 AM

Originally posted by Venturi

So if you have a roll of ISO400 film you would set the camera to either 400 for a 1 stop push, or 800 for a 2 stop push.

Re-reading my own words, I see I botched my numbers. Should have written....

"if you have a roll of ISO400 film you would set the camera to either 800 for a 1 stop push, or 1600 for a 2 stop push."

jgredline · 03-12-2009, 08:47 AM

Originally posted by Venturi

Re-reading my own words, I see I botched my numbers. Should have written....

"if you have a roll of ISO400 film you would set the camera to either 800 for a 1 stop push, or 1600 for a 2 stop push."

I figured that is what you meant. I do that all the time. Write , then proof read. Then get

no biggie.

03-10-2009, 07:48 AM	#1
SuperAkuma Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bay Area, CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 445	Any sample of a 400 film pushed to 1600? BW only Do anyone have any shot with a black and white film that was pushed 2 stop from 400 to 1600? I just want to see how much film grain it will have. I also would like to see it pushed from 400 to 800 or even 3200. Since I just started film, I don't know much about it. I have one question on it. Can you tell a difference between a 400 film pushed to 800 vs a film that is 800 speed native? Or a 400 pushed to 1600 vs a 1600 speed native? Thanks for anyone who can give me some examples or answer the question.

03-12-2009, 05:36 AM	#10
pasipasi Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Oulu Photos: Gallery Posts: 532	Flickr is pretty good for finding examples from different lenses, films etc, and here is about 1400 pictures from the search 'tri-x pushed 1600'. Pretty good results pushed I think. edit: forgot the link Last edited by pasipasi; 03-12-2009 at 09:15 AM.

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03-10-2009, 08:15 AM	#2
CSoars Inactive Account Join Date: May 2008 Location: Edmonton, Canada Posts: 322	I posted a thread a couple weeks back. One thing with B&W, you're unlikely to find 'native' 200 or 800 speed films, and I think most anything 'fast' made by kodak or ilford (tmax/delta 3200) is of a different emulsion that usually has finer grain than 'traditional' ones such as Tri-X, so it's hard to compare. increased grain isn't the only consideration, you'll notice the tonal range is compressed, so you'll hit pure white and black much sooner; the film doesn't support as much contrast when pushed. This is HP5+ @ 1600 https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-film-slr-discussion/52022-ilford-h...ed-1600-a.html I've also shot some Delta 3200 (rated for 1600), and it's quite nice grain wise, but low contrast; you need to develop it longer than the box says.

03-10-2009, 08:21 AM	#3
Gooshin Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Toronto, the one in Canada. Posts: 5,610	here is 400 pushed to 1000

03-10-2009, 08:50 AM	#4
lithos Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Brisbane, QLD, AUS Posts: 3,261	Ask, and ye shall receive, Akuma: Deltax 400, +2, D-76 Tri-X, +2, D-76 Ask me if I've got any pushed three stops...

03-11-2009, 08:56 PM	#5
SuperAkuma Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bay Area, CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 445 Original Poster	Thanks for the sample photo. Do you have any pushed 3 stops? You asked me to ask you.

03-11-2009, 09:02 PM	#6
k100d Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Toronto Posts: 3,911	heard that Neopan 1600 works well

03-11-2009, 10:35 PM	#7
jgredline Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: LosAngeles, Ca. Photos: Albums Posts: 10,628	Is the pushing done in PP or in camera settings?

03-11-2009, 11:08 PM	#8
Venturi Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Tulsa, OK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,636	Originally posted by jgredline Is the pushing done in PP or in camera settings? Both, sort of. When you push film you set the camera 1 or 2 stops, typically, above its rated ISO. So if you have a roll of ISO400 film you would set the camera to either 400 for a 1 stop push, or 800 for a 2 stop push. You are actually underexposing the film. SHOOT THE ENTIRE ROLL THIS WAY. Then during the developing stage of processing the film you, or a competent lab, leave the film in the developer for extended time to compensate for the underexposure. Pull processing (shooting at a lower ISO setting than the film's rating) is just the opposite - less time given in the developer. There's not much call for pull processing though because you don't have nearly as much latitude in dynamic range overexposing film as underexposing. Maybe if you were doing a high-key shoot it would be appropriate???

03-12-2009, 02:23 AM	#9
lithos Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Brisbane, QLD, AUS Posts: 3,261	Originally posted by Venturi So if you have a roll of ISO400 film you would set the camera to either 400 for a 1 stop push, or 800 for a 2 stop push. You are actually underexposing the film. SHOOT THE ENTIRE ROLL THIS WAY. Tri-X is the notable exception to this - the developing times for ISO 800 are exactly the same as those for ISO 400 (altough Venturi is just providing a general example). It's fairly easy to do, push processing, and not really harder than normal processing, although it's a bit more sensitive to time and temperature fluctuations, as there's less latitude. Sure, there are high-speed films out there - TMZ P3200, Delta 3200 and Neopan 1600, but all these (while still being high-speed), aren't really at their given box speed. For example, TMZ 3200 is really around ISO 1250. You'll notice that on the boxes of all these films they'll call what you think is the "ISO" rating the "EI" (exposure index) rating, mean you're not shooting the film at its true speed. Why do I mention this? Because while some people like using high-speed film for their work, often you'll get similar results if you just push 400 ISO film.

03-12-2009, 06:49 AM	#11
Nachodog Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Montreal, Qc Posts: 472	What's the general rule when it comes to extending developing times when pushing a film? Is it mostly trial and error? Is the time/ISO relationship linear?

03-12-2009, 06:50 AM	#12
Gooshin Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Toronto, the one in Canada. Posts: 5,610	Originally posted by Nachodog What's the general rule when it comes to extending developing times when pushing a film? Is it mostly trial and error? Is the time/ISO relationship linear? each film comes with a "data" sheet, that sheet will list instructions for push processing depending on set of chemicals used.

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03-12-2009, 07:05 AM	#13
Venturi Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Tulsa, OK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,636	Originally posted by lithos Tri-X is the notable exception to this - the developing times for ISO 800 are exactly the same as those for ISO 400. ... Sure, there are high-speed films out there - TMZ P3200, Delta 3200 and Neopan 1600, but all these (while still being high-speed), aren't really at their given box speed. I did not know that. Good info, thanks!

03-12-2009, 07:08 AM	#14
Venturi Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Tulsa, OK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,636	Originally posted by Venturi So if you have a roll of ISO400 film you would set the camera to either 400 for a 1 stop push, or 800 for a 2 stop push. Re-reading my own words, I see I botched my numbers. Should have written.... "if you have a roll of ISO400 film you would set the camera to either 800 for a 1 stop push, or 1600 for a 2 stop push."

03-12-2009, 08:47 AM	#15
jgredline Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: LosAngeles, Ca. Photos: Albums Posts: 10,628	Originally posted by Venturi Re-reading my own words, I see I botched my numbers. Should have written.... "if you have a roll of ISO400 film you would set the camera to either 800 for a 1 stop push, or 1600 for a 2 stop push." I figured that is what you meant. I do that all the time. Write , then proof read. Then get no biggie.