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05-10-2015, 03:57 PM   #2971
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tony Belding Quote
I learned photography on a KS-2 and will always have a soft spot in my heart for it. As for looking "badass". . . I dunno, but I'm sure it's better than having SEARS on it in bold letters!
In Europe we don't have Sears so perhaps that's the reason why I don't associate it with a lousy chain of shops or something like that.

Still Sears is on the shoulder, not on the pentaprism.

05-10-2015, 10:43 PM   #2972
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cuthbert Quote
Indeed, it reminds me the Canon F1N AE they used in Raimi's first Spiderman: they had removed the logo from the prism and I liked it.

I would also like to get as Sears branded Rikenon f1.4 but they hard to procure, it appears they are good lenses but IMO Ricoh and Chinon are unfortunate sounding brands.
Ricoh must not have been too unfortunate, though, considering they bought the company they chose to copy.

---------- Post added 05-11-15 at 12:54 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Cuthbert Quote
In Europe we don't have Sears so perhaps that's the reason why I don't associate it with a lousy chain of shops or something like that.

Still Sears is on the shoulder, not on the pentaprism.
Sears is a large department store chain here in the US, and is probably the oldest, as well. One thing Sears has been able to manage that other department stores haven't is being able to stay relevant as times change. Back in the 50s, 60s, and 70s, stores branded their products to emphasize their power in the market. These days they don't do this so much anymore. Excepting, in Sears case, large appliances, which still carry the Kenmore label -- even though they're all made by Whirlpool, and perhaps some Craftsman items. (Craftsman is a Sears brand name for its tools, which are generally considered to be of excellent quality)

Me, I never really understood why the large department stores like, Sears, JC Penny, and K-Mart insisted on marketing items under a house label. (K-Mart is "Focal") It was really only effective with noobs to the market, and I just think they would have been better off if the various 3rd party brands were sold instead of house brands. It doesn't really fool anybody for long.
05-11-2015, 10:54 AM   #2973
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QuoteOriginally posted by cooltouch Quote
Ricoh must not have been too unfortunate, though, considering they bought the company they chose to copy.
That is sort of a strange statement. Chinon cameras were often derivative in look and features to Ricoh, Pentax, and other cameras, but were genuinely innovative for several models. I don't know of a any instance where a Ricoh model was a Chinon copy or made by Chinon*. It is also my understanding that much of the Chinon DNA is more closely related to Cosina and that the company itself was absorbed by Kodak in the 1990s and continues to this day as a Kodak subsidiary.

As for Sears and cameras, time was when Sears was a major retailer of camera and photographic gear in the U.S. Nesster (Jussi) can probably fill in a few of the details here, but in the 1950s many (now) major camera brands were initially imported to the U.S. under the Tower (Sears) brand. Until the late-1970s Sears published an exhaustive photo catalog from which you could purchase almost any German or Japanese camera available. Yes, they even sold Leica and Rollei (TLR). The longest-running affiliation was with Ricoh for both cameras and lenses. That relationship started in the mid-1960s and continued into the 1980s. The Chinon-based Sears cameras as well as generic Japanese and Korean lenses came later.


Steve

* There are a couple of Chinon models as well as similar cameras under the Revue name that bear superficial resemblance to the Ricoh Singlex TLS, but that is due to the placement of the shutter speed dial, the default and easiest location for bodies using the original Copal "Square" metal vertical-travel shutter.

Last edited by stevebrot; 05-11-2015 at 11:07 AM.
05-11-2015, 11:26 AM   #2974
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
in the 1950s many (now) major camera brands were initially imported to the U.S. under the Tower (Sears) brand. Until the late-1970s Sears published an exhaustive photo catalog from which you could purchase almost any German or Japanese camera available
I THINK it was illegal for Japanese and German companies to own their own distribution companies in the USA until sometime in the 70's. That was a legacy of WWII, and the driving force to change it was demand for high-mileage Japanese cars and luxury German cars. My father had a friend who owned cargo ships to carry exported coal to Germany after the war. He brought Volkswagens back in those ships. For years until, the early 70's, he owned the distribution rights to Volkswagen and Porsche automobiles for most of the USA.

Right place right time sort of thing.

05-11-2015, 12:20 PM   #2975
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
That is sort of a strange statement. Chinon cameras were often derivative in look and features to Ricoh, Pentax, and other cameras, but were genuinely innovative for several models. I don't know of a any instance where a Ricoh model was a Chinon copy or made by Chinon*. It is also my understanding that much of the Chinon DNA is more closely related to Cosina and that the company itself was absorbed by Kodak in the 1990s and continues to this day as a Kodak subsidiary.
I was perhaps being too cryptic. Referring specifically to the fact that Ricoh bought out Pentax. I realize Ricoh built some good cameras, but they did copy the Pentax K mount -- which is what I was referring to.
05-11-2015, 01:31 PM   #2976
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QuoteOriginally posted by cooltouch Quote
I was perhaps being too cryptic. Referring specifically to the fact that Ricoh bought out Pentax. I realize Ricoh built some good cameras, but they did copy the Pentax K mount -- which is what I was referring to.
We should also note that Pentax chose to license the use of the Pentax mount to make it a "universal" mount as opposed to blatant unlicensed copies as done previously.
05-11-2015, 02:22 PM   #2977
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If you're on the prowl for K mount Ricoh lense do research the Ricoh "pin." As I understand it the pin can lock a Ricoh lens onto a Pentax K mount, making removal extremely difficult.
Here's a link discussing the pin: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/58-troubleshooting-beginner-help/62194-ri...ed-remove.html
05-11-2015, 02:54 PM - 1 Like   #2978
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QuoteOriginally posted by LesDMess Quote
We should also note that Pentax chose to license the use of the Pentax mount to make it a "universal" mount as opposed to blatant unlicensed copies as done previously.
Yes, as a matter of fact the Soviets even implemented the K mount in their last and most advanced cameras in the late 70s/early 80s: the Almaz series and the last Zenit Avtomat...BTW do they also count as Pentax bodies like the Ricohs and the Chinons?

Then this shot belongs here:



People, observe! The only attempt of the Reds to build a camera of the Nikon F2/Pentax LX/Canon F-1! And one of the scarce cameras on the world LesDMess can't boast possession of!



05-11-2015, 03:15 PM   #2979
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I THINK it was illegal for Japanese and German companies to own their own distribution companies in the USA until sometime in the 70's. That was a legacy of WWII, and the driving force to change it was demand for high-mileage Japanese cars and luxury German cars. My father had a friend who owned cargo ships to carry exported coal to Germany after the war. He brought Volkswagens back in those ships. For years until, the early 70's, he owned the distribution rights to Volkswagen and Porsche automobiles for most of the USA.

Right place right time sort of thing.
But that is not supported by the history of Volkswagen Group of America and Dr Dr. Carl Hahn from 1955 as shown on Wiki Volkswagen Group of America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Nor bt the set up in 1957 in Australia (of which I have personal recollections)
Yikes, the valve gear used to pull out of the cylinder heads of some of those early TDK beetles assembled in Australia, and you could set the car on fire by checking the battery water!
05-11-2015, 03:30 PM   #2980
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cuthbert Quote
Yes, as a matter of fact the Soviets even implemented the K mount in their last and most advanced cameras in the late 70s/early 80s: the Almaz series and the last Zenit Avtomat...BTW do they also count as Pentax bodies like the Ricohs and the Chinons?

Then this shot belongs here:

People, observe! The only attempt of the Reds to build a camera of the Nikon F2/Pentax LX/Canon F-1! And one of the scarce cameras on the world LesDMess can't boast possession of!
I only have Japanese made cameras except for the one Luftwaffe Leica clone comrade . . .

I am sure there were/are some interesting cameras to have come out of the Red factories! ALMAZ 102 and others from USSR Photo.com
05-11-2015, 03:40 PM   #2981
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QuoteOriginally posted by LesDMess Quote
I only have Japanese made cameras except for the one Luftwaffe Leica clone comrade . . .

I am sure there were/are some interesting cameras to have come out of the Red factories! ALMAZ 102 and others from USSR Photo.com
Yes Almaz 101 and 102 were cool cameras, a pity they could have never produced them because too expensive, the 101 was shutter priority AE and probably the electronic was copied by the Minolta XK or directly inserted inside the Soviet body (they just made two specimens so it's possible). The Ministry of Defense (yes, Breznev's MOD also ordered which cameras the factories had to produce and which journalists would have received them, all the Almazes and Kiev 18s were meant to be used by pros) also ordered the production of superfast lenses: 50 mm f1.2, f1.4, a 35 mm f1.4 and a 35-105 mm f2,8 zoom... the big bosses of the CPSU had excellent taste and appetite for cameras, it appears.
05-11-2015, 05:21 PM   #2982
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QuoteOriginally posted by wombat2go Quote
But that is not supported by the history of Volkswagen Group of America and Dr Dr. Carl Hahn from 1955 as shown on Wiki Volkswagen Group of America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
All the VWoA reference links go to 404 Not Found.

But whatever - you're probably right. Maybe it was just Porsches at the time. I was 15 or 16.

Last edited by monochrome; 05-11-2015 at 05:48 PM.
05-11-2015, 09:21 PM   #2983
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
As for Sears and cameras, time was when Sears was a major retailer of camera and photographic gear in the U.S. Nesster (Jussi) can probably fill in a few of the details here, but in the 1950s many (now) major camera brands were initially imported to the U.S. under the Tower (Sears) brand. Until the late-1970s Sears published an exhaustive photo catalog from which you could purchase almost any German or Japanese camera available. Yes, they even sold Leica and Rollei (TLR). The longest-running affiliation was with Ricoh for both cameras and lenses. That relationship started in the mid-1960s and continued into the 1980s. The Chinon-based Sears cameras as well as generic Japanese and Korean lenses came later.
I found Nesster's 1958 Sears Photo Catalog:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/nesster/sets/72157626944848453

This page should be of particular interest:




Steve
05-11-2015, 09:58 PM   #2984
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I THINK it was illegal for Japanese and German companies to own their own distribution companies in the USA until sometime in the 70's.
I don't know what the laws were, but I do know that all of the Japanese and German cameras sold in the 60s and early 70s were sold through U.S. distributors. Pentax carried the Tower and then Honeywell names and Canon was branded as Bell & Howell. Ricoh was sold by Braun and Nikon by EPOI. I believe that Topcon was sold as Beseler Topcon. Ricoh branded as Ricoh was sold through Braun NA.


Steve
05-11-2015, 10:27 PM   #2985
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QuoteOriginally posted by cooltouch Quote
I was perhaps being too cryptic. Referring specifically to the fact that Ricoh bought out Pentax. I realize Ricoh built some good cameras, but they did copy the Pentax K mount -- which is what I was referring to.
Sorry to have taken you wrong. There is a contingent of Chinon fans who claim that many Ricoh models were rebranded Chinon.

You are very correct that Ricoh was the first camera maker outside of Pentax to use the K-mount. There has been a bit of conjecture regarding the relationship between the two companies in the mid-to-late 1970s. The Ricoh K-mount cameras followed the equivalent Pentax models by about a year. There are several Pentax and Ricoh lenses that are identical except for the branding. It is likely that there was collaboration on figuring out the fine points of optimizing the manufacturing process to the new mount.


Steve
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