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brkl · 02-25-2010, 12:13 PM

ME Super is the easiest I've seen. How is it different? I can't really imagine an improvement without changing the cartridge.

Steve Beswick · 02-25-2010, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by brkl

ME Super is the easiest I've seen. How is it different? I can't really imagine an improvement without changing the cartridge.

On an M series camera you put the end of the film in between the white plastic rods in the wind spool.

On a P3n, P30t, and I believe a P3 as well, the wind spool is much fatter and has sprocket teeth on it. You simply lay the film across the opening so that it lines up with an orange "put it here" mark, close the back, and start winding!

EDIT: I just checked the manual for a P3 and it is the same as well.

Sluggo · 02-25-2010, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by Steve Beswick

...You simply lay the film across the opening so that it lines up with an orange "put it here" mark, close the back, and start winding!

True, that is a nice feature of these cameras. They're easy at load time, and if you develop film at home, it's also a luxury working with leaders that haven't been kinked and reverse-rolled.

Steve Beswick · 02-26-2010, 02:44 AM

Something I was thinking about today -

People often talk about how the P3n is a plastic camera, but the core structure of the camera is metal. Heck, the non "n" version of the P3 has just about as much metal to it as a Super Program, and a lot more than an A3000.

brkl · 02-26-2010, 06:34 AM

The P3 feels fine, I'll give it that. I'd get one if it wasn't for the DX code thing and the fact that I really don't need another body!

bobore · 02-26-2010, 11:39 AM

Imho, the P5 is a much better bet, most importantly because you can add the MEII winder for long lenses. A great handling combination, as the back grip works perfectly with the winder. Can't remember the other upgraded features anymore, but the winder alone makes it worth the price of admission.

**ChrisPlatt** · 02-26-2010, 04:41 PM

IMO the conventional shutter speed dial on the P3/P3n/P30/P30T is far better
than the buttons and LCD arrangement of the P5. And who needs a winder?

Chris

24X36NOW · 03-01-2010, 08:13 AM

I need a winder (or battery grip these days) to make the camera tolerable to hold. They're too small without it, and often don't have anything for your fingers to grab up front. Plus, I do shoot things that move, so a winder is preferred for multiple shots of moving subjects anyway.

As for the P3/P5 variants, who needs them? I've got two LX's

**ChrisPlatt** · 03-01-2010, 10:08 AM

Originally posted by 24X36NOW

I need a winder (or battery grip these days) to make the camera tolerable to hold. They're too small without it, and often don't have anything for your fingers to grab up front. Plus, I do shoot things that move, so a winder is preferred for multiple shots of moving subjects anyway.

As for the P3/P5 variants, who needs them? I've got two LX's

The P3/P3N/P30/P30T bodies have a convenient built-in grip.
The P5/P50 bodies have a removable dedicated grip.

I like my LX too, but my P3N has AE memory lock, a powerful feature the LX does not.
And locked in the trunk of your car, which model would you worry about less?

Chris

stevebrot · 03-01-2010, 12:45 PM

Originally posted by ChrisPlatt

...And locked in the trunk of your car, which model would you worry about less?

This last point is pretty important. I have three K-mount film bodies; a KX, a Ricoh XR-2s, and a Ricoh XR7. Of the three, the KX is easily in the best condition and also cost me the most after CLA (~$200). My total investment in the Ricohs is under $75 for the pair. I tend to baby the KX, but am not particularly concerned about the Ricohs. They are pretty tough. There is also the matter of features and performance. (People familiar with either Ricoh model will grin at this point.) The KX is a great fully mechanical camera, but in practice, it is not that useful to me.

For me, given the choice of an LX vs. a lot of P3N, P5, SuperProgram, and ProgramPlus, (Yes, you could buy all four for the price of an LX in comparable condition.) I would have to seriously ask myself if the pro features of the LX are worth it. The value proposition is definitely with any of the other four bodies.

Steve

Steve Beswick · 03-01-2010, 08:03 PM

My P3n and Vivitar 50mm f2 combo cost a whopping total of $29 shipped to my door. Recently I was doing a studio shoot and while getting up off the floor I dropped the camera, which caused the back to pop open. Even though I was in a controlled environment where I could re-create any shot I wanted my first thought was "oh f**k the film"! Try that with an LX.

24X36NOW · 03-02-2010, 06:58 PM

If I want to lock something in the trunk, there's the K1000 for that.

As for auto exposure lock, I don't use auto exposure for anything but flash, and the LX provides perfectly exposed flash pictures (without any metering manipulation) in my experience. I've generally found daylight exposures with slide film to be something that requires manual control, so I guess I never thought of auto exposure lock as a feature - just don't use it.

I value the ability to shoot without being dependent on batteries a great deal more, which can't be done with the P-Series bodies.

As for the "drop it on the floor" scenario, maybe an LX wouldn't have popped open.

**ChrisPlatt** · 03-02-2010, 07:34 PM

AE exposure memory lock, used with substitute metering gives you all the control of manual, and in practice can actually be done faster.
My P3N has this feature; my LX does not.

Chris

Steve Beswick · 03-02-2010, 08:11 PM

Originally posted by 24X36NOW

As for the "drop it on the floor" scenario, maybe an LX wouldn't have popped open.

Maybe, but if I dropped an LX on the floor, I might pop open!

24X36NOW · 03-06-2010, 10:26 AM

Originally posted by Steve Beswick

Maybe, but if I dropped an LX on the floor, I might pop open!

Yeah, there's always THAT problem!

02-25-2010, 02:00 PM	#32
Steve Beswick Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Ontario, California Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,736	Originally posted by brkl ME Super is the easiest I've seen. How is it different? I can't really imagine an improvement without changing the cartridge. On an M series camera you put the end of the film in between the white plastic rods in the wind spool. On a P3n, P30t, and I believe a P3 as well, the wind spool is much fatter and has sprocket teeth on it. You simply lay the film across the opening so that it lines up with an orange "put it here" mark, close the back, and start winding! EDIT: I just checked the manual for a P3 and it is the same as well. Last edited by Steve Beswick; 02-25-2010 at 02:07 PM.

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02-25-2010, 12:13 PM	#31
brkl Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 497	ME Super is the easiest I've seen. How is it different? I can't really imagine an improvement without changing the cartridge.

02-25-2010, 02:08 PM	#33
Sluggo Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Ames, Iowa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 774	Originally posted by Steve Beswick ...You simply lay the film across the opening so that it lines up with an orange "put it here" mark, close the back, and start winding! True, that is a nice feature of these cameras. They're easy at load time, and if you develop film at home, it's also a luxury working with leaders that haven't been kinked and reverse-rolled.

02-26-2010, 02:44 AM	#34
Steve Beswick Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Ontario, California Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,736	Something I was thinking about today - People often talk about how the P3n is a plastic camera, but the core structure of the camera is metal. Heck, the non "n" version of the P3 has just about as much metal to it as a Super Program, and a lot more than an A3000.

02-26-2010, 06:34 AM	#35
brkl Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 497	The P3 feels fine, I'll give it that. I'd get one if it wasn't for the DX code thing and the fact that I really don't need another body!

02-26-2010, 11:39 AM	#36
bobore Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: North Oregon Coast Posts: 162	Imho, the P5 is a much better bet, most importantly because you can add the MEII winder for long lenses. A great handling combination, as the back grip works perfectly with the winder. Can't remember the other upgraded features anymore, but the winder alone makes it worth the price of admission.

02-26-2010, 04:41 PM	#37
ChrisPlatt Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Rockaway Beach NYC Posts: 7,702	IMO the conventional shutter speed dial on the P3/P3n/P30/P30T is far better than the buttons and LCD arrangement of the P5. And who needs a winder? Chris

03-01-2010, 08:13 AM	#38
24X36NOW Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: CT, USA Posts: 498	I need a winder (or battery grip these days) to make the camera tolerable to hold. They're too small without it, and often don't have anything for your fingers to grab up front. Plus, I do shoot things that move, so a winder is preferred for multiple shots of moving subjects anyway. As for the P3/P5 variants, who needs them? I've got two LX's

03-01-2010, 10:08 AM	#39
ChrisPlatt Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Rockaway Beach NYC Posts: 7,702	Originally posted by 24X36NOW I need a winder (or battery grip these days) to make the camera tolerable to hold. They're too small without it, and often don't have anything for your fingers to grab up front. Plus, I do shoot things that move, so a winder is preferred for multiple shots of moving subjects anyway. As for the P3/P5 variants, who needs them? I've got two LX's The P3/P3N/P30/P30T bodies have a convenient built-in grip. The P5/P50 bodies have a removable dedicated grip. I like my LX too, but my P3N has AE memory lock, a powerful feature the LX does not. And locked in the trunk of your car, which model would you worry about less? Chris

03-01-2010, 12:45 PM	#40
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by ChrisPlatt ...And locked in the trunk of your car, which model would you worry about less? This last point is pretty important. I have three K-mount film bodies; a KX, a Ricoh XR-2s, and a Ricoh XR7. Of the three, the KX is easily in the best condition and also cost me the most after CLA (~$200). My total investment in the Ricohs is under $75 for the pair. I tend to baby the KX, but am not particularly concerned about the Ricohs. They are pretty tough. There is also the matter of features and performance. (People familiar with either Ricoh model will grin at this point.) The KX is a great fully mechanical camera, but in practice, it is not that useful to me. For me, given the choice of an LX vs. a lot of P3N, P5, SuperProgram, and ProgramPlus, (Yes, you could buy all four for the price of an LX in comparable condition.) I would have to seriously ask myself if the pro features of the LX are worth it. The value proposition is definitely with any of the other four bodies. Steve

03-01-2010, 08:03 PM	#41
Steve Beswick Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Ontario, California Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,736	My P3n and Vivitar 50mm f2 combo cost a whopping total of $29 shipped to my door. Recently I was doing a studio shoot and while getting up off the floor I dropped the camera, which caused the back to pop open. Even though I was in a controlled environment where I could re-create any shot I wanted my first thought was "oh f**k the film"! Try that with an LX.

03-02-2010, 06:58 PM	#42
24X36NOW Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: CT, USA Posts: 498	If I want to lock something in the trunk, there's the K1000 for that. As for auto exposure lock, I don't use auto exposure for anything but flash, and the LX provides perfectly exposed flash pictures (without any metering manipulation) in my experience. I've generally found daylight exposures with slide film to be something that requires manual control, so I guess I never thought of auto exposure lock as a feature - just don't use it. I value the ability to shoot without being dependent on batteries a great deal more, which can't be done with the P-Series bodies. As for the "drop it on the floor" scenario, maybe an LX wouldn't have popped open.

03-02-2010, 07:34 PM	#43
ChrisPlatt Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Rockaway Beach NYC Posts: 7,702	AE exposure memory lock, used with substitute metering gives you all the control of manual, and in practice can actually be done faster. My P3N has this feature; my LX does not. Chris

03-02-2010, 08:11 PM	#44
Steve Beswick Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Ontario, California Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,736	Originally posted by 24X36NOW As for the "drop it on the floor" scenario, maybe an LX wouldn't have popped open. Maybe, but if I dropped an LX on the floor, I might pop open!

03-06-2010, 10:26 AM	#45
24X36NOW Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: CT, USA Posts: 498	Originally posted by Steve Beswick Maybe, but if I dropped an LX on the floor, I might pop open! Yeah, there's always THAT problem!

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