Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
05-10-2009, 07:29 PM   #1
Veteran Member
geauxpez's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Atlanta
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,197
Need Spotmatic Clarification - edited

Quick question: What is the difference between a Spotmatic designated on the front as a "Spotmatic F" and one that is only designated near the rewind knob as a "SP F"? Are these both Spotmatic F's or is there a difference?

Thanks!

Adam

**Edit -- I have seen a couple of Spotmatics that just say Spotmatic on the front and have no model designator near the rewind knob. ???


Last edited by geauxpez; 05-11-2009 at 10:18 AM.
05-11-2009, 05:41 AM   #2
Forum Member




Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Bronson, Missouri
Posts: 72
I could be wrong, but I think all Spot Fs are labeled in both places. For example:

ASAHI PENTAX SPF
05-11-2009, 10:23 AM   #3
Veteran Member
geauxpez's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Atlanta
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,197
Original Poster
Thanks Jerry. I have revised my question a bit -- how about for models that lack designators like this one?
05-11-2009, 11:37 AM   #4
Inactive Account




Join Date: May 2008
Location: Forest Park, Georgia/Jacksonville, Florida
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 633
QuoteOriginally posted by geauxpez Quote
Thanks Jerry. I have revised my question a bit -- how about for models that lack designators like this one?
Check with Seaain (Woof) as this might be an early model Spotmatic. I know that one model had the round O in Honeywell and another had the 0 more like this. But I'm not sure which was early and which was late. Seaain does have an early model so he should be able to tell.

CW

05-11-2009, 11:38 AM   #5
Pentaxian




Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Bay Village, Ohio USA
Posts: 1,047
That's the way Honeywell did it

QuoteOriginally posted by geauxpez Quote
Thanks Jerry. I have revised my question a bit -- how about for models that lack designators like this one?
That is a Honeywell Pentax Spotmatic. Honeywell was the US importer. From 1952 (or thereabouts) until 1976, all Pentax cameras sold in the US were imported by Heiland, which became the Honeywell Photographic Division. Cameras of that era but labelled as Asahi (the manufacturer) are ones that were originally sold in the rest of the world. The original Spotmatic did not have the top engraved designation. If you find an Asahi Pentax Spotmatic of the same era, it WILL have SP engraved on the top.

Here's a link to a picture of an Asahi Spotmatic F. http://www.ne.jp/asahi/japan/manual-camera/sp1.htm. If you look carefully, you can see the SP engraved on top, next to the rewind knob.

The Spotmatic F was a different model. It had the additional cam on the Super-Multi-Coated or SMC Takumar, lenses to allow for open-aperture metering, whereas the original Spotmatic, whether labelled Honeywell or Asahi, did not and required the use of "stop down" metering.

I believe that, after the original Spotmatic, Honeywell conformed to the Asahi practice of engraving a model designation on top. I'm pretty sure that the Honeywell versions of the Spotmatic II, IIa and F, all had the top designation. Interstingly, the Honeywell versions of the Spotmatic predecessor models, such as the H1a and H3v (S1a and SV in Asahi dress), did have the designation on top, but nothing on the front.

BTW, the Spotmatic IIa was a US-only model. It had a flash sensor on the camera body that worked with the Honeywell Strobonar 772 and 882 flashes, which were made by Rollei, not Asahi. Consequently, you will never see an Asahi Pentax Spotmatic IIa.

There were three models that had the top designation, but no front engraving. There were the SP 500, SP 1000 and SL. Technically, none were properly called Spotmatics. All were virtually identical to the Spotmatic, with minor exceptions. The SP 500 had no 1/1000 second shutter speed or self-timer. The SP 1000 lacked the self-timer. The SL had a self-timer, but no light meter. I believe that all three were available in both the Asahi and Honeywell names.

Last edited by noblepa; 05-11-2009 at 11:48 AM.
05-11-2009, 02:15 PM   #6
Veteran Member
geauxpez's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Atlanta
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,197
Original Poster
Thanks for the info. The one in question is not an HV or SV era camera -- I can tell that much. The seller (not a camera guy) told me that he was told that this particular camera was an F even though it had no model designator on the body. Given that he was selling it as an F, I will evaluate it when I get it and if it is not, then I should have recourse. If it's an F, this should be really nice following a CLA.

Thanks!
05-11-2009, 02:23 PM   #7
Veteran Member




Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In the present
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,870
QuoteOriginally posted by noblepa Quote
That is a Honeywell Pentax Spotmatic.
Quite right... The eBay auction is for a Honeywell plain old Spotmatic, where there is nothing on the top plate except a Serial Number. For the Asahi plain old Spotmatic, they had SP on the top plate.

The Honeywell Spotmatic F had SP F on the top plate as well as Spotmatic F on the front.

There are some big difference between Spotmatic models. Best source of summary information is here.

Die Cast Pro - Spotmatic Family Traits

If we can help with individual IDs, please feel free.

woof!
05-11-2009, 04:20 PM   #8
Ira
Inactive Account




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Coral Springs, FL
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,216
QuoteOriginally posted by geauxpez Quote
Thanks for the info. The one in question is not an HV or SV era camera -- I can tell that much. The seller (not a camera guy) told me that he was told that this particular camera was an F even though it had no model designator on the body. Given that he was selling it as an F, I will evaluate it when I get it and if it is not, then I should have recourse. If it's an F, this should be really nice following a CLA.

Thanks!
YOU LUCKY B**TARD!

That's*a GREAT condition black for a great price! I really want a black body (got others), but any decent ones that have been coming up on eBay have been going for a HELL of a lot more than that!

05-11-2009, 05:00 PM   #9
Veteran Member
geauxpez's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Atlanta
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,197
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Ira Quote
YOU LUCKY B**TARD!

That's*a GREAT condition black for a great price! I really want a black body (got others), but any decent ones that have been coming up on eBay have been going for a HELL of a lot more than that!
Thanks -- that's really what I wanted. Should get along fine with my LX and black ME Super. I had a VERY used black Spottie SP last year and even though I parted with it for a good cause, I can't help but think that I could have bought a silver one to donate instead.

By "plain old Spotmatic", where would it fall in the pecking order? Pre SP?
05-11-2009, 08:01 PM   #10
Loyal Site Supporter
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 20,426
QuoteOriginally posted by geauxpez Quote
Thanks -- that's really what I wanted. Should get along fine with my LX and black ME Super. I had a VERY used black Spottie SP last year and even though I parted with it for a good cause, I can't help but think that I could have bought a silver one to donate instead.

By "plain old Spotmatic", where would it fall in the pecking order? Pre SP?
Go Here and scroll down to SP. That should be your camera. It is not a SP-F - but for that price, SO WHAT!! Further down you will find Spotmatic F info and there is also a side-by-side feature comparison on the website.

For a high quality, dependable CLA, at a fair price, at no risk to you from a Forum-member recommended (well, members here use him) CLA, email Eric Hendrickson - Pentax Camera Service. Review his website for prices and what he does - you will be pleased. (Reviewed and linked in Pentax Forums External Links Here)
05-11-2009, 08:21 PM   #11
Veteran Member
geauxpez's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Atlanta
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,197
Original Poster
Thanks for the tips Monochrome. Eric CLA'd the last Spotmatic I had and currently has my LX. He will get this one as well.
05-12-2009, 07:46 AM   #12
Pentaxian




Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Bay Village, Ohio USA
Posts: 1,047
Honeywell Spotmatic same as Asahi SP

QuoteOriginally posted by geauxpez Quote
Thanks -- that's really what I wanted. Should get along fine with my LX and black ME Super. I had a VERY used black Spottie SP last year and even though I parted with it for a good cause, I can't help but think that I could have bought a silver one to donate instead.

By "plain old Spotmatic", where would it fall in the pecking order? Pre SP?
The "plain old Spotmatic" ***IS*** the SP. The US importer, Honeywell, did not engrave the SP on the top. In the rest of the world, Asahi did engrave SP on top. Other than that, the two are identical.

People tend to refer to the "plain old Spotmatic" only to differentiate it from the Spotmatic F, the SP II and so on. There were four models that clearly bore the name Spotmatic.

The SP500, SP 1000 and SL are often referred to as Spotmatics, but technically, they are not, even though they are, in many respects, identical to the Spottie.

The ES and ES II, were also not technically Spotmatics. There were simply the Pentax ES and Pentax ES II, although everyone knew that ES stood for "Electro Spotmatic", and they looked very much like the "plain old Spotmatic".

Here is a more or less chronological listing of Honeywell/Asahi equivalents

Honeywell = Asahi

H2 = S2
H1,H3 = S1,S3
H1a,H3v = S1,SV
Spotmatic = Spotmatic SP
SL = SL (no meter)
SP500,SP1000 = SP500,SP1000 (low cost models, no s/t, 55mm f2.0 lens)
Spotmatic II = Spotmatic II
Spotmatic IIa = n/a
ES = ES (slightly reworked Elector-Spotmatic)
Spotmatic F = Spotmatic F (open aperture metering)
n/a = Electro-Spotmatic (Japan only, I believe)
ES II = ES II

At about this time, Honeywell left the photographic business and Pentaxes were sold in the US under the Asahi name. There never was a Honeywell Pentax K-1000, for example.

Even today, when Pentax USA is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Pentax Japan, they continue to use different model names in the US. The newest Pentax, the K-2000 is known as the K-m in the rest of the world.

In the nineties, the ZX series in the US was the MZ series everywhere else.
05-12-2009, 07:52 AM   #13
Pentaxian




Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Bay Village, Ohio USA
Posts: 1,047
Spotmatic name

BTW, the name Spotmatic came about because the prototype, shown at Photokina in 1960, had a spot meter. It was a CdS sensor on a little arm that would swing down in front of the film plane and flip up, out of the way during exposure. It must have been a mechanical nightmare.

By the time the camera was released for sale, in 1964, the spot meter had been replaced by an averaging meter system, based in the penta prism. However, the marketing types at Pentax must have liked the name, because that's what stuck even though it no longer had a spot meter.
05-12-2009, 10:03 AM   #14
Veteran Member
geauxpez's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Atlanta
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,197
Original Poster
Wow -- ok -- great info. I have nothing against the SP or Honeywell variant. Good to know what I'll have. If I really want open aperture metering on a given day, I'll take a K-mount.
05-12-2009, 04:46 PM   #15
Ira
Inactive Account




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Coral Springs, FL
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,216
I just noticed something about your buy that I didn't read before. And something else that doesn't make sense:

He says there's a shutter problem, and that could be more than a CLA. Also, he shows a manual for a totally different camera.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
front, knob, rewind, spotmatic
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
In need of some clarification on sealing and water danger CWyatt Pentax DSLR Discussion 6 02-26-2010 01:46 PM
I would like some clarification on commenting on prices WheresWaldo Site Suggestions and Help 1 07-05-2009 03:26 PM
Clarification on Raw Button Function AGW Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 5 02-12-2009 12:56 PM
Weekly Challenge - Rule Clarification atupdate Weekly Photo Challenges 25 03-24-2008 08:31 PM
compression and file formats, some clarification? Gooshin Digital Processing, Software, and Printing 12 02-24-2008 06:31 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:29 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top