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05-16-2009, 02:39 PM   #1
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Old Bulk Expired Film Score - any hints

So I have been getting set up to bulk load my own film and spotted an ad on our local craigslist for a winder and some cartridges up in Carlsbad CA. I jumped in the mighty VW and went up to buy them. Along with the 40 or so cartridges, there were (2) daylight winders and he threw in a box of other stuff including several unopened bags of D76 and tins of film - The film was still cold and he said it had been stored in the freezer. I have been shooting the standard off the shelf Kodak & Ilford 100 & 400 so this "old school" stuff is a new to me - My question - are there any special considerations / hints for using and developing this old expired stuff ? (I have Xtol and D76 here):

(2x) 100 feet of Kodalith Ortho Film 6556 Type 3 expired 6/1983
50 feet of Kodak Plus-X Pan Film (ASA-125) expired 9/1981
100 feet of Kodak Panatomic-X (ASA-32) Expired 3/1981

05-16-2009, 06:49 PM   #2
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If the film has truly been stored in the freezer, you should have no problem following normal development procedures. Best way to find out is to load and shoot a short roll, and develop normally.
05-16-2009, 06:50 PM   #3
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Not really. You're going to have to spool some short rolls of them and do some testing. The Kodalith is listed in the Unlisted Data section of the Massive Development Chart:

Digitaltruth Photo: The Massive Dev Chart

but even that is suspect considering the age of what you have.
05-16-2009, 07:05 PM   #4
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I'd use Diafine on the whole mess. And no, I am not joking.

05-16-2009, 07:13 PM   #5
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I just bought 20 rolls of 2 year old expired Fuji superia x-tra 400 and shot a quick roll with my Spoty. I am anxious to see what the images look like. I will be going to target shortly to pick up the negs. Will post when I get back.
05-16-2009, 10:16 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rustyoldbug Quote
So I have been getting set up to bulk load my own film and spotted an ad on our local craigslist for a winder and some cartridges up in Carlsbad CA. I jumped in the mighty VW and went up to buy them. Along with the 40 or so cartridges, there were (2) daylight winders and he threw in a box of other stuff including several unopened bags of D76 and tins of film - The film was still cold and he said it had been stored in the freezer. I have been shooting the standard off the shelf Kodak & Ilford 100 & 400 so this "old school" stuff is a new to me - My question - are there any special considerations / hints for using and developing this old expired stuff ? (I have Xtol and D76 here):

(2x) 100 feet of Kodalith Ortho Film 6556 Type 3 expired 6/1983
50 feet of Kodak Plus-X Pan Film (ASA-125) expired 9/1981
100 feet of Kodak Panatomic-X (ASA-32) Expired 3/1981
PM sent.

more letters
05-16-2009, 10:47 PM   #7
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Well here is some 2 year old expired film. Aside from the crazy grain, it seems ok to me.
1964 Spoty SP, SUPER TAK 55F/1.8, FUJI 400 SUPERIA X-TRA





05-17-2009, 07:25 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jerry Thirsty Quote
Not really. You're going to have to spool some short rolls of them and do some testing. The Kodalith is listed in the Unlisted Data section of the Massive Development Chart:

Digitaltruth Photo: The Massive Dev Chart

but even that is suspect considering the age of what you have.
I was reading posts and little articles all over last night in my fit of insomnia and that seems to be what others that have come across this sort of stuff end up doing. I spooled up some short rolls of the Plus-X and the Kodalith and am going to see what sort of results I get.

I like some of the art photos I saw people doing with the kodalith - especially the very "contrasty" portraits that look like they are from the 30s-40s.

From doing the reading and looking around online - I think the panatomic will sit in the freezer for now and I'll do some tests with that when I head up to the Salton Sea. The pictures I saw online shot with it looked super clean. Thanks for the link to the Massive Developer Chart - I normally just D/L the data sheets off the manufacturers website, but that is a wealth of info there.

QuoteOriginally posted by jgredline Quote
I just bought 20 rolls of 2 year old expired Fuji superia x-tra 400 and shot a quick roll with my Spoty. I am anxious to see what the images look like. I will be going to target shortly to pick up the negs. Will post when I get back.
Looks like they came out nice - though that would be a much better shot if that engine were a nice hot-rod VW engine - hahaha - You're in L.A.? Ever make it down to San Diego neighbor?

05-17-2009, 07:38 AM   #9
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You are a lucky guy! I must get some 30m roll of Tri-x again for my daylight loaders.
If these have been stored cold and dark they should last much longer than the data declared. If anything, the 100 feet rolls probably last longer than the pre-loaded cartridges since they are both better protected to light, heat and oxygen. But shoot some short 10 frame test roll of each on something unimportant before you start to use the on your brothers wedding or so
And keep them stored cold, even when you have loaded the 100feet rolls in the daylight loaders, keep them in the fridge, and keep the exposed film in the fridge. The last is even more important. Exposed film is not really chemically stable until you have developed it.
05-17-2009, 01:22 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rustyoldbug Quote
Looks like they came out nice - though that would be a much better shot if that engine were a nice hot-rod VW engine - hahaha - You're in L.A.? Ever make it down to San Diego neighbor?
Thank you. It has been a while since I have been down south, but perhaps a trip is in order.
05-17-2009, 01:38 PM   #11
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Hee, as mentioned, you should be OK, that old slower stuff keeps really well and it sounds like conditions were pretty ideal. You might find you lose a bit of density and contrast, if anything, but you can probably compensate with a little extra time. The Diafine idea isn't half bad, though I've never tried that.
05-18-2009, 08:17 AM   #12
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I went up to La Jolla and ran the short rolls of Plus-X through the SP yesterday. I put it through a variety of shots - beach, cliffs, tidal pools, caves, a few "portrait" type shots, seals, squirrels, etc... I developed the first one to the Kodak data sheet with no special considerations and it looks like everything came out really nice. I went ahead and processed the rest and also very nice (except for a few over-exposed shots which were actually "Pilot Error") The negatives are drying now. Ordered a new Canon negative scanner last... Thursday from Amazon and will scan this stuff in when it arrives so you guys can see the decades old stuff in action.

That was the easy one, now I am going to experiment with some of the Kodalith stuff next - I thought he had given me 200', there is actually almost 300' of this stuff though - one of the loaders had an almost full roll in it. If anything it will get me thinking out of the box a little with my darkroom (bathroom) procedures and force me to improve my note taking. Probably try some of the developer recipes people have posted for Kodalith with what I have for now and since a few folks have said try Diafine - I will probably pick a little up next time I go to the local camera shop and give that a try too.

QuoteOriginally posted by jgredline Quote
Thank you. It has been a while since I have been down south, but perhaps a trip is in order.
Next time you are down here give me a heads up and we can do lunch or coffee. The fiance has to go to JPL meetings in Pasadena on occasion and usually wants me to drive her. I will probably be hitting some of the bigger car meets and shows up there this summer too. I will obviously be at the VW Classic in Irvine this year (Bugorama Promotions of Sacramento). If I am going to be in your area I will drop you a line.

Douglas - it was lucky, I almost canceled because I was tired and wanted to sleep in a little but he wanted me there early. Even after I got the stuff I didn't realize what was there until I got home - I thought he was just dumping some old stuff off on me and I took it since he was selling me the stuff I wanted for next to nothing. The Panatomic stuff is making me feel like Mad-Max though - the last tanker of petrol and everybody wants some.
05-18-2009, 08:38 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rustyoldbug Quote



Next time you are down here give me a heads up and we can do lunch or coffee. The fiance has to go to JPL meetings in Pasadena on occasion and usually wants me to drive her. I will probably be hitting some of the bigger car meets and shows up there this summer too. I will obviously be at the VW Classic in Irvine this year (Bugorama Promotions of Sacramento). If I am going to be in your area I will drop you a line.
Yes, for sure. Oh and I live about 10 minutes or so from JPL so let me know when you are down here in my neck of the woods.

I look forward to seeing these images.
05-27-2009, 02:33 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by jgredline Quote
I look forward to seeing these images.
Here are a few shot on the 28 year old Plus-X Pan (scanned into reasonable Jpegs with that new Canon scanner):







05-27-2009, 02:40 PM   #15
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Good results, very nice tone on #2 and 3 -- I have to say seeing the word Panatomic-X brought back good old times - back when I shot 1/2 frame exclusively and Pan-x was a mainstay. Oh, Plus-X too.
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