[Ratmagiclady]

After over 40 years smoking, I quit a little over 2 years ago using Chantix which worked quite well except for the emotional side effects. Be really careful if you use this stuff and have someone else monitor your moods. I was a boiling pit of anger which is NOT me normally.

Yeah, you have to be careful with that stuff: it essentially *is* an antidepressant, (With all the attendant risks of side-effects.) and a lot of smokers out there *are* smokers because they've been essentially self-medicating for this or that without knowing it. It's part of why people have different experiences with quitting: there's more to it than just the nicotene addiction, which is one of the most serious ones out there.

One decent thing to do while quitting is to switch to some additive-free ones: most brands have all kinds of extra crap in em (not to mention extra nicotene sprayed onto fillers) that you may as well clear yourself of before you make the big push in whatever way you're doing. It's a little counterintuitive, but sometimes switching to a better brand helps. The crappier the ciggies, the more there is in it meant to make it harder to detoxify. (And keep people smoking it.)

Soon a new law goes into effect where tobbaco companies have to disclose their ingredients, something Big Tobacco has been blocking for decades, but finally went through.

Bet *that'll* scare a lot of people off, right there.

I

[Ash]

Yeah, you have to be careful with that stuff: it essentially *is* an antidepressant, (With all the attendant risks of side-effects.) and a lot of smokers out there *are* smokers because they've been essentially self-medicating for this or that without knowing it. It's part of why people have different experiences with quitting: there's more to it than just the nicotene addiction, which is one of the most serious ones out there.

Incorrect, I'm afraid.

Varenicline (Champix in Australia) is not an antidepressant at all. It is an alpha-4 beta-2 niconitic receptor partial agonist (to be precise), which just means it competes with nicotine for the receptor in the brain that is responsible for nicotine addiction.

It has no anti-depressive qualities, however there are precautions advised when prescribing the drug in depressed or otherwise psychiatrically-disturbed patients due to the effects smoking cessation itself tipping a mentally-unstable patient further off the edge. The most common side effect I have had reported is nightmares, which can be disturbing to some patients. More info here: http://www.nps.org.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/26768/pfcchamt.pdf

The medication may reduce cravings, but does not alter the psychological habit of smoking, which must be dealt with concomitantly. Hence, in Australia at least, the drug cannot be prescribed unless the patient agrees to undertake a multi-disciplinary support program to assist with quitting.

This involves in the least:
1. regular attendance of the prescribing doctor (for consistent follow up),
2. regular calling of the Quit-line (a government-sponsored telephone support agency for smoking cessation),
3. regular visits to the local psychologist for cognitive behavioural therapy (to address the psychological dependency of smoking and work through alternate methods of relaxation and diversion from the need to smoke), and
4. consistent, monitored use of the drug (under supervision of the prescribing doctor).

The drug will not be provided by any pharmacy unless these criteria are met. Similar situation with Zyban (Bupropion). Both drugs are subsidised by the government, making smoking cessation a better option economically than continuing to smoke. Overall, a very safe and effective medication.

[Ratmagiclady]

Incorrect, I'm afraid.

Varenicline (Champix in Australia) is not an antidepressant at all. It is an alpha-4 beta-2 niconitic receptor partial agonist (to be precise), which just means it competes with nicotine for the receptor in the brain that is responsible for nicotine addiction..

We may not be talking about the same stuff This was, I was pretty sure, about something called 'Chiantix' and other brand names. ...I think there's a few different commercial names here in the US, which I may be mixing up: (I may be thinking of Zyban, actually the one I have in mind has the same operation and side-effects as SSRIs.

Kind of the point about smoking cessation, even if people aren't diagnosed with anything, is that there may be more going on than someone having decided smoking was cool or fun and just needs to kick the nicotene and/or habituation. Seems we're basically on the same page there.

[Ash]

We may not be talking about the same stuff This was, I was pretty sure, about something called 'Chiantix' and other brand names. ...I think there's a few different commercial names here in the US, which I may be mixing up: (I may be thinking of Zyban, actually the one I have in mind has the same operation and side-effects as SSRIs.

We do agree.
However varenicline (generic name) is the drug we are both talking about, traded as Champix in Australia & Canada (Champix - Champix) and Chantix in the US (Quitting – CHANTIX Official Site – CHANTIX is a Prescription Medicine to Help Adults Quit Smoking). The drug (whether Chantix or Champix) is still the same nicotinic receptor agonist, and does not have anti-depressive properties.

The listed side effects include those directly due to withdrawal from smoking (irritability, insomnia, depression, anxiety, restlessness) as well as gastrointestinal upset, fatigue, headache, abnormal dreams, agitation, hallucinations and behaviour changes.

Some of these may be similar to adverse effects caused by SSRIs, but SSRIs may also cause tremor, dizziness, anorexia, dry mouth, sexual dysfunction, decreased libido, menstrual irregularities, rash, urinary retention amongst many other symptoms.

Varenicline's profile is much more favourable than that of SSRIs, and the side effects are both less common and less intense, making it safe and tolerable for most people.

[Ratmagiclady]

We do agree.
However varenicline (generic name) is the drug we are both talking about, traded as Champix in Australia & Canada (Champix - Champix) and Chantix in the US (Quitting – CHANTIX Official Site – CHANTIX is a Prescription Medicine to Help Adults Quit Smoking). The drug (whether Chantix or Champix) is still the same nicotinic receptor agonist, and does not have anti-depressive properties."

Well, we'd have to be talking about different things, then, or there's some overlap here that's beyond the detail I remember from when I and later a doctor checked it out. The stuff in question, (which has similar side effects to some bad reactions to antidepression/antianxiety meds, including, bad psychiatric ones and suicidal things, actually does some similar things to antidepressants as regards *side-effects.* Suicidal effects, rages, psychotic symptoms, etc. The severe stuff, not 'irritability' ...as bad as just quitting smoking can be. If you've had a bad reaction to any meds, (As sometimes happens when people try and treat PTSD with pills while they're still being abused or whatever) some of this stuff is contra-indicated.

Varenicline's profile is much more favourable than that of SSRIs, and the side effects are both less common and less intense, making it safe and tolerable for most people.

It's interesting, but if we're even barking up the same tree here, I'm not saying anti-depressants would make a good substitute: rather that for a lot of people, some of this stuff can have the same side-effects, even if they never knew they were self-medicating, so you've got to be *careful* about them, right?

[Ash]

Well, we'd have to be talking about different things, then, or there's some overlap here that's beyond the detail I remember from when I and later a doctor checked it out. The stuff in question, (which has similar side effects to some bad reactions to antidepression/antianxiety meds, including, bad psychiatric ones and suicidal things, actually does some similar things to antidepressants as regards *side-effects.* Suicidal effects, rages, psychotic symptoms, etc. The severe stuff, not 'irritability' ...as bad as just quitting smoking can be. If you've had a bad reaction to any meds, (As sometimes happens when people try and treat PTSD with pills while they're still being abused or whatever) some of this stuff is contra-indicated.


It's interesting, but if we're even barking up the same tree here, I'm not saying anti-depressants would make a good substitute: rather that for a lot of people, some of this stuff can have the same side-effects, even if they never knew they were self-medicating, so you've got to be *careful* about them, right?

ALL medications can have side effects, most are rare, and the common ones mostly tolerable.

Under medical supervision, all of the changes in behaviour would be monitored closely. If the doctor sees that the behaviour is adversely affecting the patient's life, the doctor makes the decision that the medication is not worth pursuing and tries another modality.

Any predisposing mental health issues of course can be exacerbated by varenicline, so psychiatric/psychological treatments should precede any prescription to get patients optimised prior to medication. Significant mental health conditions are a relative contraindication, not necessarily an absolute one.

[Ratmagiclady]

Absolutes aren't at issue, there, is all.

Over here, certainly, a lot of the anti-smoking campaigns have actually *worked.* Somewhere around literally half the country is supposed to be medicateable at this point, and not too many of those who are still smoking are just addicted to an affectation. Could be we're down to the harder cases.

Sometimes I consider that this whole American economy was built by *chain smokers* ...and no wonder no one can seem to stay on top of things. Sometimes you turn on the news and talk radio and think the whole *country's* trying to make decisions and resolve arguments having one big collective nicfit.

[woof]

...just wanted to stop in and say thanks. i was bent over my bed this morning praying for some help.
mitch

Go to quitnet. They WILL help.

Mitch, taking it down to one every couple of days merely leaves the door open to smoking more and only prolongs the addiction and the withdrawal.

The litany of problems you've had are a shame. But as far as their relationship to smoking, well... there is NO good time to quit. Which means NOW is the BEST time to quit.

The only way to stop smoking is to never smoke another cigarette no matter what. Ever. Even if your ass falls off. Frankly, the only way I got to 42539 cigs not smoked to date was one at a time. My stats say I have not smoked 42539 cigarettes. Bull. The truth is I have not smoked ONE cig.

Best wishes.

woof

2127 days quit
42539 cigarettes not smoked.
$10,635.00 saved.

[La Poder]

I quit 5 weeks ago. I smoked for 17 years. I know I will never smoke again. I have no desire to smoke. Once the desire to smoke has gone it's incredibly easy to stop. I can honestly say that I went from smoker to non-smoker in an instant with no withdrawal and no temptation to light-up. I feel incredible after just 5 weeks. I don't get out of breath, I have more cash in my pocket, I can taste and smell again (didn't realise how bad smoking affected taste and smell). I also don't feel embarassed and stupid about standing in a street outside a bar in the freezing cold and rain having to poison by lungs and body with smoke and nicotine...

The whole enigma of smoking is all psychological. Once you understand why you smoke it is easy to quit.

So how did I do it? I read this book "Easyway to stop smoking, by Allen Carr"

There are also clinics and dvd's etc but I paid £2 for a second hand copy of his book and it worked for me. It is an excellent read and I highly recommend you read this book. If you do I can almost guarantee you will give up and in a few weeks will be wondering why you ever smoked at all!

So you don't become too alarmed I should tell you that you are free to smoke whilst reading the book. Actually, you kind of have to smoke while reading the book.

Trust me, give the book a read and you'll soon be a happy non-smoker

Good luck

[fractal]

I think it can also depend on your occupation. I have done all kinds of jobs, mostly truck driving, and have found when driving it is actually easier, because you can choose not to have your lunch break! Lunch breaks are killer if you have a whole hour to kill and there is a crowd standing outside sucking down cancer sticks. A nicotine patch has worked for me somewhat. Not to quit entirely, yet, but to the point where I can go 12 hours through the day without having one, nor really thinking about it. You need to keep busy. Once you stop thats when you start to think about it. My dad has tried to quit countless times and has succeeded from anywhere between 3 months and 2 years. But I think it's his occupation that has not helped things. Dealing with truckies who pass out fags willie nillie and around a very 'male' environment does not help.

Also alcohol is a big one for me. I don't really drink unless I have cigarettes and don't smoke all that much if i'm not drinking.

[Ratmagiclady]

I quit 5 weeks ago. I smoked for 17 years. I know I will never smoke again. I have no desire to smoke. Once the desire to smoke has gone it's incredibly easy to stop. I can honestly say that I went from smoker to non-smoker in an instant with no withdrawal and no temptation to light-up. I feel incredible after just 5 weeks. I don't get out of breath, I have more cash in my pocket, I can taste and smell again (didn't realise how bad smoking affected taste and smell). I also don't feel embarassed and stupid about standing in a street outside a bar in the freezing cold and rain having to poison by lungs and body with smoke and nicotine...

The whole enigma of smoking is all psychological. Once you understand why you smoke it is easy to quit.

So how did I do it? I read this book "Easyway to stop smoking, by Allen Carr"

Well, I don't necessarily buy *that.* Certainly the effects of the chemicals are *not* 'entirely psychological,' ...they're quite measurable, in fact.


People who started to smoke cause they *felt like it,* can probably quit as well when they feel like it, (and get through any withdrawal.)

For some it's just a series of habits, for others it's physiological first, so it's not really helpful to make blanket statements about it.

Definitely, keeping busy can be helpful. As well as not talking about it when you're quitting or cutting down.

[La Poder]

MY post isn't helpful? Oh the irony.

Let me assure you that I didn't quit just because I felt like it. It took me about 3 years to quit trying every method under the sun. I wish that I had found that book 3 years ago, or 17 years ago for that matter....

I agree that nicotine is an addictive drug, but is it incredibly easy to kick when you know how. The main problem ( 99% ) is the subconscious brainwashing that every smoker suffers from. Once you read and understand the subtle and sinister trap of smoking you will find it incredibly easy and enjoyable to stop.

This isn't just pie in the sky. The book I recommend has been a bestseller over here in Europe in several countries and has cured millions of smokers of their addiction. In fact I'm shocked that no-one has mentioned it thus far.

It's frustrating to know how easy it can be for anyone to kick the habit yet have sceptics who have never read the book dismissing out of hand before they've even given it a go. That is the way of the world though I guess. Simple ways of doing things are mostly ignored.

Oh, and the advice you've given with regards to not talking about it when you give up is the complete opposite to what I'd recommend. Do you seriously think someone who buries their head in the sand and tries to ignore a problem makes it go away? If you do you're kidding yourself.

The only way to quit successfully is to be happy and enjoy giving up. You can't avoid thinking about it at first but it's what youre thinking that's important. If you go into this feeling miserable and moping for a cigarette then your doomed. Even people who do last out on the will power method crave cigarettes for years and some for the rest of their lifes...I'd much rather do it the way I've done it. The easyway. No moping, no craving. After just five weeks I rarely ever think about smoking anymore. It's a great feeling...

Give it a go and report back. If you fail I'll send you over the cost of the book.

La Poder

[PNTXFTW12]

i tried ciggarettes a few times and [genuinely] hated it.
but as for the green stuff...hate that too, had to stop to smoking the trees because i developed severe panic disorder

[Taff]

I had five bucks left. I was out of cigs. I was also out of film.....I found myself at the camera shop rather than the gas station.

hmmmmm

Time to quit, I guess.

Time to get a better paying job

[Ash]

Welcome to the forum madyus.
Not a good method you're promoting, however, in the e-cigar.

Does absolutely nothing to deal with the psychological attachment most smokers have nor the nicotine addiction all smokers have with cigarettes. This product is designed to 'replace' the cigarette, but with nothing to replace the psychological aspect of smoking (let along the physiological addiction to nicotine), this method is not effective for the majority of smokers out there.

Even hypnosis has more evidence for smoking cessation than this method. This is the real world of smoking - it's no easy fix problem...