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08-29-2009, 11:30 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by séamuis Quote
I was under the impression that this bridge circuit was only on later spotmatics
Probably some of the confusion lies in the fact that the later Spotmatics took a slightly larger battery (my F currently uses a 625).

08-29-2009, 12:52 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
I do not undersatnd the idea of scannig a -.

its the same as scanning anything else, you pass light through a medium and you record stuff. This is good

there are special scanners that are designed for film, you put in a frame, you hit the scan button, and off it goes.

all the shops that i know off, do exactly that, they will develop your film, they will scan your film, and then they will print the scanned files.

much faster than before.

if you want to have a shop waste time dark-room printing frame by frame, you are going to be paying top dollar.


since they want to save time money and space, they scan at pretty crappy settings in bulk (An epson V700 can i think scan 24 frames in a single go...), the jpeg quality is not "perfect"

where as doing it yourself with a quality scanner, results in 150 megabyte 64 bitt TIFFS that represent the negative as truthfully as possible, however that is an average of 2 minutes per frame.. so scanning a roll of 36 frames would take you roughly 1 hour once you get the hang of it, and thats before loading them up in lightroom...
Thanks for breaking it down to me this way as elementry as it seems. I never really put much thought into how photos were processed so I never thought that scanning was a part of it. Makes sense now.

This makes quite a difference in the price of doing film then. ( to do it right ) I would bascially have to pay more for a good scanner than I would for a K7.
08-29-2009, 01:25 PM   #18
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QuoteQuote:
Thanks for breaking it down to me this way as elementry as it seems. I never really put much thought into how photos were processed so I never thought that scanning was a part of it.
Traditionally, scanning was not part of photo processing. When I work with film, nothing ever touches a computer. I develop my film and print the negatives onto photo paper in my little darkroom setup. No computers are needed or wanted in my workflow.

In the modern age it is popular, especially with color, to scan the negatives and work with the digital file instead of using the negative as it was originally intended (optical printing). This technique is used because it blends in with the rest of the digital workflow that has come along with digital cameras.

Working with a digital-intermediate workflow has advantages by itself because you can basically shoot film and take advantage of the very high-quality film "image sensor" which has qualities that cannot be duplicated with a digital sensor, and you have an original negative, but you can still manipulate your images digitally and do everything digital cameras can do, having effectively the best of all worlds. In other words, film cameras can make great digital files, but digital cameras can never make original negatives. Don't throw away your negatives...even if you work digitally, they are your "RAW" files.
08-29-2009, 01:54 PM   #19
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Freestyle Photographic has very good deals on a lot of films especially black and white. They also have a mailer service that will develop, contact sheet and/or scan your b/w negatives if you don't live in an area where's there's a good lab.

You can do a lot with a K1000.

08-29-2009, 02:19 PM   #20
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Film Resources

Oren: Don't forget the K2 - K1000-sized body, and Av mode available!! (if a bit hard to find an somewhat pricey)

Do you read Boz Dmitrov's K Mount Page? Everything you ever wanted to know about K Mount caneras, lenses and accessories. Boz's K MOunt Page Scroll down to Film bodies from the manual-focus era:

There are lots of threads on which is the best Pentax MF film body in the Film SLR Discussion Forum - vigorous debates and many of the people commenting here have commented there.

Here's the link to the Kodak Consumer Film page Kodak Film. I'm sure there's something similar for FujiFilm. Everything is available from B&H or Adorama.

Film is a blast and there are so many really good Pentax film bodies available for $100 - $200.

Have fun.
08-29-2009, 02:31 PM   #21
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Kudos to you for wanting to give film a try. Its not for everyone. You might like working with film, then again, it might drive you nuts. But you don't know until you try.

Cameras to consider:

K1000 - as simple as it gets. as far from a digital as you can go and still have a built in light meter. People love them or hate them.

KM - A K1000 with DOF preview and a timer. often cheaper then the K1000

KX- A better KM now with aperture and shutter speed shown in teh view finder

ME Super - an aperture priority camera that also has full manual mode. Very small, easy to find. One of the best viewfinders ever made. I would start with one of these, then if CBA kicks in buy the others.

MX- I have never used one, I am still thinking of getting one. One of the best of the era. People love them.

LX - The top of the line manual focus Pentax. It has all the features. Exchangeable viewfinder and focusing screen. VERY well built. Aperture priority plus full manual. Gorgious view finder. removable grip. But, expensive and they often need a CLA, so almsot a $400-500 body.

-------------

Film to consider:

35 mm film cameras use 135 format film.

Kodak Tri-X 400. Clasic B&W film. can be developed in all sorts of chemicals. Most labs need to send it out to be developed. Very easy to develope at home. Can you mix a good drink or bake a cake? then you can develope film. You don't need a darkroom.

Ilford XP2 super - results similar to clasic BW film, but it can be deveoloped by most one hour photo labs.

Expired discount Film. Why not? results can be unpredictable. Colours can be off. People like the ramdomness of it. Can be very cheap.

Velvia Slide Film. The holly grail of colour film. Expensive to buy, and expensive to process. Images like no other media. Really requires carfull metering.

------------

Post processing.

Have the lab scan it or scan it yourself. I get better scans then the Lab using an Epson V500. People with Nikon Coolscans get better scans then me. It depends on what level of quality you think you need. Don't get hung up on it to start. If you get into film, then get the Coolscan, and rescan the shots you like. But just to start, get the lab to do it.

Once the shot is digital, the process is the same as for images from a K10D.

Love the comment from the canon user...They don't make film.... too funny.
08-29-2009, 05:17 PM   #22
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You guys are awesome for all the help your providing.

I don't know if this is a real concern but I have 3 lenses at this time I can use I believe. The k55, FA 31 and 77, ( I told my girlfriend I wouldn't buy anymore lenses but I didn't say anything about cameras). One question that comes to mind is do I need AV? Will the FA lenses work well on a camera that is full manual? .... thats 2 questions

Last edited by OrenMc; 09-02-2009 at 04:21 PM.
08-29-2009, 05:33 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by OrenMc Quote
I don't know if this is a real concern but I have 3 lenses at this time I can use I believe. The k55, FA 31 and 77, ( I told my girlfriend I wouldn't buy anymore lenses but I didn't say anything about cameras). One question that comes to mind is do I need AV? Will the FA lenses work well on a camera that is full manual? .... that 2 questions
do you need Av is up to you
the FA lenses work fine on any k-mount camera because they have the aperture ring

08-29-2009, 06:18 PM   #24
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This is where I chime in (like I always do) and suggest that a Ricoh XR-2, XR-2s, or XR7 would also be good choices. They are well-built, feature rich, common on the market, and usually cheaper than a comparable Pentax.

Steve

(I own both the XR-2s and the XR7 and have no problem switching between those and my Pentax KX.)
08-29-2009, 06:23 PM   #25
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Regarding backwards compatibility of lenses...

Any K-mount lens with an aperture ring will work fine on any non-AF K-mount body. Ditto for M42 lenses except that they will require an adapter. The same is true for AF bodies except for the Ricoh P K-mount variant lenses.

My FA 77/1.8 Limited simply rocks on my KX, XR-2s, and XR7 bodies. Ditto for my FA 35/2 and Sigma 50/2.8 Macro.

Steve
08-30-2009, 05:57 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by k100d Quote
do you need Av is up to you
the FA lenses work fine on any k-mount camera because they have the aperture ring
Thank you k100d,
I know it sounds like a simple question and is a preference thing but I was kind of thinking out loud. I don't use my K20 much in manual although I am not completely inept there. I have played with a few M42s and Ks but not much. In fact, this is one of the reasons ( besides increased DR ) I am thinking film in hope it would force me to think M. But at the same time I don't think I want to jump in with both feet as this may dissuade me.


QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Regarding backwards compatibility of lenses...

Any K-mount lens with an aperture ring will work fine on any non-AF K-mount body. Ditto for M42 lenses except that they will require an adapter. The same is true for AF bodies except for the Ricoh P K-mount variant lenses.

My FA 77/1.8 Limited simply rocks on my KX, XR-2s, and XR7 bodies. Ditto for my FA 35/2 and Sigma 50/2.8 Macro.

Steve
Thank you Steve for your always helpful nature.
08-30-2009, 06:56 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by OrenMc Quote
I am thinking film in hope it would force me to think M.
why do you want to think in M mode? there was a discussion a while back somewhere where someone wanted to 'get better' at M mode. the argument is that you can learn exposure better, but i'm not sure i totally agree. if you really wanted to, it's something you can do with a digital much better because you can try over and over again.

although it is cool to be able to see a scene and say ISO 400 F4 1/60, but with most cameras you use, that probably won't be necessary.
08-30-2009, 07:46 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by k100d Quote
why do you want to think in M mode? there was a discussion a while back somewhere where someone wanted to 'get better' at M mode. the argument is that you can learn exposure better, but i'm not sure i totally agree. if you really wanted to, it's something you can do with a digital much better because you can try over and over again.

although it is cool to be able to see a scene and say ISO 400 F4 1/60, but with most cameras you use, that probably won't be necessary.
why do you want to think in M mode?
Good question although I think you answered it somewhat in the last part of your reply. I totaly agree with you as far as it being easier with digital and not really necessary in most case. But at the same time I feel if I have a better understanding of the light it should improve my keeper ratio. Time is most always a factor and less time spent fumbling with exposure gives more time spent on composition it think also. Again, I am just thinking out loud a bit because I am relatively new to all this and most of it is theory to me because of lack of actual hands on so I am looking for feedback.
Relying on the camera as I have been doing is easy to do and somewhat lazy behavior which I am soooo guilty of. We hate change in a lot of instances and unless we are forced we won't do it. In my mind doing film will force me to think a little more about ALL the factors involved in the shot.
08-30-2009, 08:06 AM   #29
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My goal shooting film is to produce wet prints, not to mess with scanned images - that is, I want to do it the old way, just for the sake of doing it the old way. An analogy might be woodworking using hand tools and hand measurements, rather than power tools and machine measurements, just for the entertainment value.

One advantage to using the K10D is that practice is free. One disadvantage is that the combinations of settings are three-dimensional, rather than two-dimensional, as with film. By that I mean that aperture, shutter speed AND ISO can be varied by the camera as it decides on the best combination of the three to achieve good exposure.

Since a roll of film is all the same ISO (ASA) and you set the camera once per roll, your choices are (basically) limited to aperture and shutter speed (theory would teach Exposure Value combinations - EV).

I just recently decided to get serious about learning this art, but have been frustrated by money wasted on film, and by inability to properly control the dSLR settings.

Someone suggested I set the ISO at a fixed setting such as 100 or 400, as if I had a roll of film in the camera, and set the aperture and shutter speed manually.

Once an EV combination is manually set, a quick glance at the histogram will at least SUGGEST whether I made the correct choice.

I haven't worked this way enough yet to know whether I can meter K and M lenses this way on the K10D. If not, I'll use a handheld meter. Once I have enough experience I will transfer the gain to film.
08-30-2009, 08:48 AM   #30
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Oren if you live near a school that offers basic B&W film courses, I suggest you enroll in one. You will require a fully manual film camera and the course will last from 5 to 10 weeks.
Forum members have indicated good Pentax bodies for you to choose from.

In the course you will learn the basics of film photography, like exposure, DOF, composure and film development. You will be given assignments where you can experiment and do all the tests you want, then you get to develop your results. You should also have a teacher that is a professional photographer, so you can ask him/her all the questions you want.

After the course you can decide if film is right for you and if you want to continue shooting fully manual.

Unfortunately starting photography with a digital camera makes you lazy and you need to be reprogrammed.

I hope you will give film a try, it’s well worth the effort.

Phil.

Last edited by gofour3; 08-30-2009 at 09:40 AM.
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