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11-12-2009, 10:01 AM   #16
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That's exactly my point. No one really cares how you got the shot, just whether it looks good.

And, when learning, it's really off-putting to get chucked in the deep end. If I were teaching, I'd rather give someone a camera on A mode - hell, even with a zoom lens, which opens up even more possibilities - and have them take a few shots...which will lead to questions like "Why is the background blurry on that one?" and "Why is that car blurry?" I'd rather people get results, any results, than have to load them full of theory, put a K1000 in their hands, and then expect a perfect shot right off the bat - results that are nice to look at. And when people come up with their own questions to ask, that means they genuinely want to know.

It's also a question of pointless effort. There's a way of thinking that if you put more effort in, however pointless and misguided, it somehow makes the end result better or makes you a better person. If I ask you to dig a three-foot deep whole, and you dig a six-foot deep one and back fill three feet, I'm not gonna be impressed (especially if I was paying you buy the hour.)

Same goes if you want to shoot a pic at f5.6, and that's all you're worried about - well, on a K1000 you then have to set the correct shutter speed yourself...so you may as well be shooting in Av mode. There's nothing special about having to set the speed yourself, or having the camera do it for you...except that with the ME Super, it's a helluva lot faster, which means a lot in photography.

At the end of the day, I'd rather a picture of some description, rather than taking solace in the fact I did everything properly. I'm not a fan of the whole "it's not the destination, it's the journey" philosophy (think about it: without a destination, there is no journey.)

11-12-2009, 12:33 PM   #17
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Lithos - While I agree entirely with what you're saying. I do believe that setting things manually yourself has one important benefit; breaking the point and shoot habit.

If you had to manually set your camera then you are creating a physical connection between the action and the result. This kind of Kinetic 'doing' is very important in the human learning process.

I liken it to driving a standard gearbox car vs an automatic. The process of depressing the clutch, changing gear and releasing the clutch can easily be done by the car. Does driving a standard make you a better driver? In my opinion, it does - even if you switch straight to an automatic after you pass your driving test.

So, for anybody with the fundimentals of photography down, an ME super is a superb choice. For people graduating from a point and shoot, I'd stick 'em on a K1000 to slow them down a little.
11-12-2009, 02:04 PM   #18
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I think the simplicity of the K1000 is more for the teacher's benifit then the students. It is far easier to explain how the camera works when it is devoid of all features.

That said, the K1000 is a good choice to learn with. It is such a simple camera that a person can go from having never held a camera, to shooting pics in no time.

But...

I think the ME super is a better camera for teaching photography today. All modern cameras have a variety of automatic, and semi-automatic exposure systems. This requires some understanding of exposure compensation. The ME super allows a student to learn this skill.
11-12-2009, 07:44 PM   #19
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I would also say learning on a full manual camera is a good idea. My wife is a case in point. She started with a digi point and shoot. Then she wanted something better so she got a Contax Aria. That camera has an Av mode and that was all she used. Not a problem because it makes her understand the function of the aperture. But one day she wanted a Rolleiflex. So I gave her one of mine to play with and she was completely confused. "What do I do with this knob?". It was the shutter dial. I explained to her the EV system and how to use sunny 16 but she still had no idea what I was talking about. I think she understands how shutter speed and ISO etc all relate now but she still has no idea how to guess exposure... or rather she hasn't had enough practice. Had she started on a manual camera I am confident she would have understood how everything related to one another. Consiously setting the shutter speed makes you look at it and take into consideration the impact of the speed. Camera shake? Motion blur? In Av mode, I think most beginners would just tend to set the aperture and then take the picture without first looking at the shutter speed.

Now I started with a full auto AF SLR, a Canon EOS. I was determined to learn about photography properly so I took the effort to set the aperture and shutter as I saw fit. In the very beginning though I would break down and use one of the picture modes every now and again. But in the end I persevered and now I know what I am doing.

So in short if your student is not really self disciplined, a manual camera is a good way to give them that little kick in the butt as it were

11-13-2009, 12:41 AM   #20
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I tend to leave my Km in Av mode now, but I do still use the auto modes for very specific situations. Case in point, I was recently asked to take some photos of a stage show. I eventually settled on night portrait mode which left me free to concentrate on getting nicely composed shots and following the action on stage. I don't see it as somehow breaking down or cheating - we pay for these functions and they do have their place. I'll be at a car show over the weekend which includes a live performance section, so for that part I'll most likely use moving object mode with Av for the static section.
11-13-2009, 08:36 AM   #21
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there's me and my MX
got it for $87 off ebay, body only.
i'm sending it in to Eric to get it CLA'd next week.
Oh and, that's my K-7 lost in the creamy bokeh, if you were wondering.
11-13-2009, 09:09 AM   #22
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You know, an MX is in danger of getting onto my wish list of film SLRs. At the moment there are only two I'd like, an ME F and an MG!

Must buy A50mm F1.7 and K or M 135mm first, as I'll use them more...

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