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11-21-2009, 02:41 PM   #1
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What happen in using DA primes on SuperProgram/MX

I am totally naive on film! Specifically, I don't know what my 1st roll of b&w will happen with my SuperProgram using DA 21mm f/3.2 limited. Magically, it seems to meter in Auto mode when I tried it earlier. When I tried two shots, the Programmed Auto mode picks up f/3.5 in ASA 400 iso film. Any guess what kind of issues that I will run into. And I mounted my DA 40mm f/2.8 limited onto my MX that I just received for deadwolfbones but I don't have the batteries to try out the metering.






MX: I am much better than you, look at my viewfinder. Not a chance I go to Marketplace
SuperProgram: You don't have a hand grip and I have 1/125 sync, smaller body. Not a chance I get sold



If any of you have tried these or similar combination before with DA lens where you don't have aperture rings and that the lens is supposed to be digital only, please clue me in before I ruin my trials on films. When I look through the view finders, I don't see any vignetting around the viewfinder corner. At the minimum, it is not obvious to me.

Thanks,
Hin

11-21-2009, 03:19 PM   #2
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Hin,
One big problem with the MX and one additional problem with both the MX and SuperProgram. First the issue they both share:
There is no guarantee of full image circle coverage with DA lenses on 35mm bodies
This problem varies from lens to lens with some of the DA lenses being just fine. Unfortunately, vignette is not always apparent in the viewfinder, though you can compensate to a certain extent in PP or the darkroom.

Now the big one on the MX:
The lens will always shoot at minimum aperture
Yep, that is an inconvenient truth. The MX is unable to control the aperture from the body which results in the following fatal condition...metering is done wide open, but shooting is done fully closed. You might be able to fool the meter by using the DOF preview to get a stop-down meter reading.

Sorry

Best to stick with lenses that have aperture rings with the MX.

Steve
11-21-2009, 03:39 PM   #3
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DA works fine on the program series, but as Steve says, not on the MX etc. I use my ProgramPlus all the time with DA's, of course limited to Program mode only. As you can't set aperture from the camera body, Av's out, but afair SuperPgm has Tv?

Re coverage - the 40 definitely covers the 35mm frame. As does the 70.
11-21-2009, 05:00 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nesster Quote
...but afair SuperPgm has Tv?
You remember correctly. With shutter dial on "M" and aperture ring on "A" (if one exists), shutter speeds are selectable using the buttons on the top. The camera should then select the appropriate aperture. I would assume that DA lenses would be detected as being in the "A" position.

Steve

11-22-2009, 01:45 PM   #5
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I have used my DA 18-55mm AL II on my Superprogram body and it is usable in A-mode from about 24mm and greater. Wider than that and the image circle doesn't cover the frame.
11-22-2009, 04:13 PM   #6
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Original Poster
Thank you for all the valuable inputs. I have been using both the DA 21 and DA 40 on my 1st roll of b&w film with Pentax SuperProgram. The metering seems spot on in the Programmed mode. And I am pretty certain that the 40mm does not vignette towards the corners. I have fewer shots on the DA 21 and I do not obviously see the darker corner either. Results are yet to tell though I am hopeful that the DA will work at least on the SuperProgram. A while ago, I tried the DA 18-55 and DA 50-200 and I recall the kit's lens vignette in the wide angle but I fell short in getting a roll of film.

As Steve and Nester have given their valuable inputs, the MX is out of luck with the DA lens. And I just found quite a bit of sealing material are gone in the MX that I bought. I wonder how much Eric will quote for a CLA with light sealing and I don't know if it is worth it. In any case, I would shoot a roll of film to see the results and handling first. I am a SuperProgram guy and the smaller viewfinder doesn't bother me. I especially like the form factor and the presence of a hand grip making it more enjoyable in shooting. But I am sure I have not discovered the myths and praises in the MX yet.

I am in my pursue of finding a good 35mm film camera, my 3rd film camera with Ricoh xr-p with winder is on its way. I am quite surprised to see the Ricoh with 1/250 sec in sync speed, 1/2000 sec and iso 3200, and it is black in color taking on the Pentax K-mount.

I hope to pick a good fit out of the three and let the other go to a good home later on. But that should be fun to go back to film with three very capable cameras. I will be shooting in b&w, try out slides and perhaps pick up a book or two related to b&w and film. Recommendations on books and resources are welcome.

Much thanks
Hin
11-22-2009, 04:52 PM   #7
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If you can find one, an original 40mm pancake would go very nicely with that MX...

I'd say it's worth having it professionally serviced. You know it's a fundamentally sound camera, so there shouldn't be any nasty surprises.
11-23-2009, 05:25 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dangermouse Quote
If you can find one, an original 40mm pancake would go very nicely with that MX...
You should also mention price... Every time I go looking for a M 40 mm, the price always boarders on the outrageous... Must be my luck.

11-23-2009, 07:23 AM   #9
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Too true, the cheapest I've seen was 85 and it looks as though you'll pay around 100 for a good one.

I'd like one, but from what I read they're not particularly wonderful in optical terms. One of them, an original ME and the belt clip for the ME would be a nice kit to own though.
11-23-2009, 11:54 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dangermouse Quote
Too true, the cheapest I've seen was 85 and it looks as though you'll pay around 100 for a good one.

I'd like one, but from what I read they're not particularly wonderful in optical terms. One of them, an original ME and the belt clip for the ME would be a nice kit to own though.
You are not helping me with my addictions. After spending my money on a nice used copy of Pentax DA 40mm f/2.8 that works well in my K20D and the white K-x that are coming in a few days, I can hardly find the reason to get an Pentax M 40mm f/2.8 unless I can find one that is around $125.00. Last year, I bought a used copy of Pentax M 40mm f/2.8 for cheap around $75.0 with a reason in probably separation of element that look like watercolor in reflection upon close examination. I sold it later for $50.00 with full disclosures, the thing is a beauty in the past and present. I really wish the DA to have an aperture ring and it will fit perfectly with the MX. And I really like the form factor of Pentax DA 40mm f/2.8 and it is a good thing to be shorter than 50mm for normal lens, good close up at 0.4 meters similar to FA 50mm f/1.4 and fast AF.


After a test roll of film, I am going to ask a quote on fixing the light sealing from Eric.

I am NAIVE on film, I really like my SuperProgram, can someone clue me in why I should fall in love with the MX. I know the viewfinder is bigger but the SuperProgram has so much to offer with Av, M, Tv, B mode and I especially love the extra grip in SuperProgram for better ergonomics in the field. Yes, the Tv mode works in M with two buttons to adjust shutter as mentioned by Steve, very nice to have. The viewfinder in SuperProrgram is about 0.82 magnification [92 % coverage] which is small compared to MX 0.97 magnification [95% coverage]. Please feel free to tell me more what you like most about MX besides the viewfinder. The MX only works in M mode, that is harder for me to get used to after using digital Av and TAv mode for a while.

Thanks,
Hin

Last edited by hinman; 11-24-2009 at 08:35 PM.
11-23-2009, 12:41 PM   #11
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Hin,
Here are the plus points for the MX:
  • Fully mechanical shutter works even when the batteries don't
  • Slightly smaller than the Super Program
  • Arguably more rugged
  • Accepts high speed motor drive
  • Interchangeable focus screens
  • Exposure compensation is easy and straightforward
I have to admit that I too would probably favor the Super Program except:
  • Aperture in viewfinder limited to Sv and P modes
  • Exposure compensation via separate dial on body
  • No exposure lock
I have been shooting with my KX (very similar to your MX) and Ricoh XR7 lately and have to admit that the KX seems sort of clunky by comparison. The XR7 with Av is so much easier to use.

Steve
11-23-2009, 12:53 PM   #12
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Part of me really wants to buy the old M series pancake, but then I think that the A 50mm isn't much longer and is better optically, also the Takumar 28mm I have is a better focal length for day to day use, and I could buy two more conventional M series lenses for the same money...

But I'm still going to have a hard time not buying one!

I'm thinking that I'll have a go at fitting a DIY light sealing kit to my battered MV1, see how easy it is to do. My MG and ME Super could also do with replacement seals but I'd rather not learn on them as they work perfectly and are in excellent cosmetic condition. The MV1 already looks as though it survived a minor war!

A professional service is about 55, which I really can't justify given how little I paid for the cameras. I'm not even sure whether that includes new light seals.
11-23-2009, 06:58 PM   #13
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The DA 40 is miles ahead optically to the M 40 pancake. I can't justify the cost of an M 40 f2.8 being more than an M 50 f1.4! ...that said, they are really cool looking

To your other point - from what I understand, waiting to replace the light seals isn't going to ruin your camera. One day you'll get your prints back and there will be that tell tail sign of light leakage. If you're willing to take the risk that you may lose a roll or 2 to this, then wait until it actually needs doing.
11-23-2009, 07:10 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by keyser Quote
To your other point - from what I understand, waiting to replace the light seals isn't going to ruin your camera. One day you'll get your prints back and there will be that tell tail sign of light leakage. If you're willing to take the risk that you may lose a roll or 2 to this, then wait until it actually needs doing.
This is very true. More important in the absence of obvious light leaks is the condition of the mirror bumper. It should be replaced if gummy or shredded. The foam material turns into a sticky goo with age that has the potential of being flung onto the focus screen and/or shutter mechanism (shudder ). Either case requires a service visit. To test the bumper, remove the lens and touch the foam bumper strip at the top of the mirror box with a dry toothpick or matchstick. It should be replaced if sticky and/or has lost its resilience.

Steve
11-24-2009, 01:39 PM   #15
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My worry with the light seals is that they might start to break up and jam the camera. My three M series bodies probably need new mirror bumper foam, I actually replaced the one on the MV1 with some soft, dense foam cut to size and held in with a tiny dab of PVA glue. I chose PVA as it peels off easily and doesn't fog nearby surfaces.

I've yet to try putting a film through any of them, although the ME Super is likely to be used with a roll of black and white after I finish my current roll (which is testing a battered Olympus OM10 that I bought for a few s),

I can't help but be tempted by an M 40mm to go with the fully functioning MG body I have here. It's in good shape and needs a lens...

Last edited by Dangermouse; 11-24-2009 at 01:41 PM. Reason: Another thought
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