Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
02-15-2010, 12:43 AM   #1
Senior Member
summonbaka's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Kagoshima, Japan
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 237
Questions from a new film user

Hello everyone, I recently found a accessible Pentax MX here in Japan and I bought it after wanting it for a while. Now I have some doubts of the usage of it. I plan mostly to use it with B&W and some low-ISO color film. My question is, which is a nice B&W film for ISO ranging 64 - 400 (with the casual 1600+ for crazy grain)? The second, what are recommended filters for color and/or B&W film? I want to get the WB as close as possible when taking the pic in color (skylight, polarizer, etc...), and boost general contrast for B&W (I have a yellow filter that i read could help for this, please correct me if i'm completely off).

02-15-2010, 01:05 AM   #2
Veteran Member




Join Date: Sep 2006
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 5,713
I've never had a white balance problems while shooting film outdoors. It's when your shooting indoors that you require either filters or special films. Even then, most labs will correct the looks to a point, unless you ask them not to.

With B&W film, I usually use Ilford, although I've gotten good results using Fuji Neopan. I have a roll of Kodak T-Max waiting for the right moment to come out, however I've never tried it.
02-15-2010, 03:15 AM   #3
Veteran Member
artobest's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Swansea, Wales
Posts: 455
Rollei (made by Maco in Germany) have probably the widest range of black and white films at the moment. Try their Retro range for beautiful tonality (80 and 400 ASA, although some remaining stock of the Agfa-produced 100 is still around). I'm about to shoot some Rollei Superpan for the first time. Using their films is a real kick because the range is so wide, it's hard to choose.

Ilford make a good range of films too, and they have a strong commitment to black and white, so it's our duty as photographers to support them. I like the classic FP4 Plus, it's a great film and easy to develop. They also make the best C-41 b&w film, called XP2. It can be developed at your local lab in colour chemicals and gives nice tonality and a rich, inky granularity.

For black and white I carry an orange filter. It's a compromise between the hardly-notice-it yellow and the too-strong red. I don't like the black skies a red filter can give (too fake) but the orange really pushes cloud forms to the fore. If you want darker skies, you can combine the orange with a polarizer, which is also the one must-have filter for colour.
02-15-2010, 05:39 AM   #4
Veteran Member
Nesster's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: NJ USA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 13,047
Just for the record: in the past I never used a filter for b&w, and everything came out just fine. You don't need a color filter to get good results, but it's a good thing to undertstand their effect so when you want to, you know what to use. A yellow filter (or yellow-orange) is useful moreso in nature with skies than on city streets. (This from personal experience - too lazy to take the filter off)

Here's how you can learn about filters by doing: download Virtual Photographer for your photoshop/elements (they may have it for other programs as well). There's a b&w converter where you can apply a color 'filter' and see the effect directly. Actually, you don't need VP, as you can also use photoshop 'photo filter' layer and then a B&W conversion layer to see the effects.

Fuji's b&w films are great - there's no real need to go beyond the ASA 100 and 400 they make, plus in Japan you can get their C-41 b&w film as well, which looks excellent based on samples we've seen here. Fuji tends to be on the cheap end of the price spectrum also, which is a good thing. Fuji's color films are excellent as well - I use a lot of their 160 speed stuff, always with satisfying results. One of their consumer films (asa400) I didn't like at all, too garish.

02-15-2010, 05:53 AM   #5
Veteran Member
Ben_Edict's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: SouthWest "Regio"
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,303
QuoteOriginally posted by summonbaka Quote
Hello everyone, I recently found a accessible Pentax MX here in Japan and I bought it after wanting it for a while. Now I have some doubts of the usage of it. I plan mostly to use it with B&W and some low-ISO color film. My question is, which is a nice B&W film for ISO ranging 64 - 400 (with the casual 1600+ for crazy grain)? The second, what are recommended filters for color and/or B&W film? I want to get the WB as close as possible when taking the pic in color (skylight, polarizer, etc...), and boost general contrast for B&W (I have a yellow filter that i read could help for this, please correct me if i'm completely off).
The others here have already given you some important answers. Forget white balance with film, unless you shoot under artificial lighting with slide film. Colour negs cope quite welll with tungsten and generally will be balanced during printing. For fluorescent lighting ofcourse FL-D or FL-W filters may help aigainst the hard to filter out during printing colour casts.

If you want serious grain, use Kodak Tri-X and push-process it to ISO 1000 or 1600. Tri-X has a nice granularity even at ISO 400, its base sensitivity.

Ben
02-15-2010, 06:41 AM   #6
New Member




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Buenos Aires
Posts: 22
Yellow gives a litle more contrast; Orange even more. You want a surreal scene? Use Red. Don't forget a good Hood.
02-15-2010, 10:08 AM   #7
Senior Member
summonbaka's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Kagoshima, Japan
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 237
Original Poster
Thanks everyone for the quick replies. So basically, I would use the same fiters I am using with digital?

QuoteOriginally posted by Nesster Quote
You don't need a color filter to get good results, but it's a good thing to undertstand their effect so when you want to, you know what to use. A yellow filter (or yellow-orange) is useful moreso in nature with skies than on city streets.

Here's how you can learn about filters by doing: download Virtual Photographer for your photoshop/elements (they may have it for other programs as well). There's a b&w converter where you can apply a color 'filter' and see the effect directly. Actually, you don't need VP, as you can also use photoshop 'photo filter' layer and then a B&W conversion layer to see the effects.
About digital filters, never crossed my mind to do it like that. Thanks. :P

QuoteOriginally posted by little laker Quote
I've never had a white balance problems while shooting film outdoors. It's when your shooting indoors that you require either filters or special films. Even then, most labs will correct the looks to a point, unless you ask them not to.

With B&W film, I usually use Ilford, although I've gotten good results using Fuji Neopan. I have a roll of Kodak T-Max waiting for the right moment to come out, however I've never tried it.
I think I've seen neopan here, will try that one.

QuoteOriginally posted by artobest Quote
Rollei (made by Maco in Germany) have probably the widest range of black and white films at the moment. Try their Retro range for beautiful tonality (80 and 400 ASA, although some remaining stock of the Agfa-produced 100 is still around). I'm about to shoot some Rollei Superpan for the first time. Using their films is a real kick because the range is so wide, it's hard to choose.

For black and white I carry an orange filter. It's a compromise between the hardly-notice-it yellow and the too-strong red. I don't like the black skies a red filter can give (too fake) but the orange really pushes cloud forms to the fore. If you want darker skies, you can combine the orange with a polarizer, which is also the one must-have filter for colour.

QuoteOriginally posted by Bruiser Quote
Yellow gives a litle more contrast; Orange even more. You want a surreal scene? Use Red. Don't forget a good Hood.
Thanks for the info about the yellow/orange/red filters for b&w. The polarizer is already part of my normal filters, sometimes only as a ND2 for those shallow portraits in full sun.

QuoteOriginally posted by Ben_Edict Quote
Forget white balance with film, unless you shoot under artificial lighting with slide film. Colour negs cope quite welll with tungsten and generally will be balanced during printing.

If you want serious grain, use Kodak Tri-X and push-process it to ISO 1000 or 1600. Tri-X has a nice granularity even at ISO 400, its base sensitivity.

Ben
The Tri-X sounds nice, but can't remember if there was some at the store I went to. I'll remember the trick when I want grain. The problem will be asking for push-process in japanese.

I have seen in other threads the use of velvia color film. I think I'm going to give the velvia 50 a try.

So, the recommendation is mostly to use the filters you normally use in digital for film (for people like me that go that way). Also, when shooting b&w theres another range of filters, but they are not necessary. Finally I will try the different options i have available to find what i enjoy the most.

Thanks everyone, I will post some photos next week after I send the film to process. The weather is horrible right now so it will have to wait.

Nando
02-15-2010, 02:32 PM   #8
Veteran Member
titrisol's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: In the most populated state... state of denial
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,098
Well, yes digital copied the filters used in film for eons.
The easy way to visualize this is to take an image and to see at the 3 channels
- RED
- GREEN
- BLUE

Yellow eliminates the blue channel
Red eliminates green and blue
Orange is in-between

02-15-2010, 02:57 PM   #9
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 7,103
I've seen many digital color converted to gray scale with those "filters" applied. And they are not like the real thing from what I've seen. Applying a Yellow filter in the graphics editor made this guy's sky almost black. That would not occur in a balanced shot with a Yellow filter in BW film. You'd need an unpolluted, clear, deep Blue sky and a Red filter to get the equivalent. And you'd be hard pressed to get a black sky all the way down to the horizon like I've seen in these conversions.

Like Nesster says, you need to use color filters when appropriate with BW. Using, say, an Orange all the time can really hurt your shadow detail, for example. More so with Red and less so with Yellow. But of course it all depends on exposure, light and your vision of the scene.

Last edited by tuco; 02-15-2010 at 03:10 PM.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
color, film
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New film user here Super A-wesome Welcomes and Introductions 1 09-30-2010 09:55 PM
brand new user questions arrondee Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 4 09-19-2010 09:17 PM
K200D Questions from a former Pentax Film SLR User MiguelATF Pentax DSLR Discussion 16 06-16-2010 04:12 AM
pre-purchase questions about K-x user interface ChopperCharles Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 8 01-17-2010 03:24 AM
USER mode for K7 ... questions. jpzk Pentax DSLR Discussion 9 12-29-2009 12:38 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:27 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top