Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
03-26-2010, 12:04 PM   #1
Veteran Member
FHPhotographer's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Fountain Hills, AZ
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,298
Need help setting up film>digital B&W comparison

I came into photography with DSLR, but I am interested in B&W. I realize that no digital image can truly duplicate B&W film results, but I'd like to get as close as possible to the IQ of film working with digital.

Currently the best conversion I can get is through NIK Silver Efex Pro and it has a list of 18 film "types" .

I want to do a comparison of those types using a good, high quality film print as the baseline. If there's any interest in this forum in looking at those various types, can somebody send me a high resolution TIFF scanned (?) image that I can run through the NIK program? I'll try all the film types listed here, and post them for review and comment.

Also, if anybody suggestions on how to set the comparison up (size, dpi etc) I would appreciate getting those comments.

Or, if this has been done somewhere and link would be great. Thanks,
Brian
EDIT: strike the question. After some more thought, and working on the B&W film scan that laker was kind enough to provide, I now realize that any digital conversion of a B&W film print will muddy the waters by only "recalibrating" the various parameters of the original (as Steve suggested below). Since I don't anything about film processing/printing, the only thing I can think of would be to take two "identical shots", one on color film and the other on B&W film, print both, then scan the color film print and then convert that scanned image to B&W. Laborious, and probably not worth the effort to find out for sure what most folks already believe to be true, that the digital B&W conversion will be inferior to the film B&W.


Last edited by FHPhotographer; 03-27-2010 at 10:53 AM.
03-26-2010, 12:29 PM   #2
Veteran Member




Join Date: Sep 2006
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 5,713
I can get you a 2 - 3 mb JPG scan from a roll of Ilford Delta 100 pro, but that's about it today.
03-26-2010, 12:32 PM   #3
graphicgr8s
Guest




QuoteOriginally posted by little laker Quote
I can get you a 2 - 3 mb JPG scan from a roll of Ilford Delta 100 pro, but that's about it today.
If it's scanned than it's no longer film. How can you compare? As soon as it is scanned it loses the gamut film truly has. To see the true beauty of film it must be processed analog. In other words wet processed. On paper. With an enlarger. And real chemicals.
03-26-2010, 03:20 PM   #4
Veteran Member




Join Date: Sep 2006
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 5,713
QuoteOriginally posted by graphicgr8s Quote
If it's scanned than it's no longer film. How can you compare? As soon as it is scanned it loses the gamut film truly has. To see the true beauty of film it must be processed analog. In other words wet processed. On paper. With an enlarger. And real chemicals.
I do agree with you, however I can't offer any print like that today either. All my paper is around the 30 year old period, so it just doesn't give me the results I should be getting.
However it's still god for some vintage looking photos, so I think that I'll keep it

03-26-2010, 04:45 PM   #5
Veteran Member
FHPhotographer's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Fountain Hills, AZ
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,298
Original Poster
laker, sure, let's have a go. If George is right, then the comparison can't be made, but it might be interesting to see how it turns out, real Ilford 100 to digital. What have got to lose, send it along,
Brian
03-26-2010, 04:57 PM   #6
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 6,929
If you like BW, then shoot the real thing. You will support and ensure its continued existence; otherwise, one day we'll only have imitation BW to look at. You can pickup a medium format camera at a reasonable cost depending on model.
03-26-2010, 05:55 PM   #7
Site Supporter
stevebrot's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 26,158
QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
If you like BW, then shoot the real thing. You will support and ensure its continued existence; otherwise, one day we'll only have imitation BW to look at. You can pickup a medium format camera at a reasonable cost depending on model.
What he said...

You can also get decent 35mm cameras for very little money.

Steve
03-26-2010, 09:54 PM   #8
Veteran Member




Join Date: Sep 2006
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 5,713
I do agree with the others, the best B&W is the real thing. If you look back a few posts you'll see that I had a beautiful K1000 practically given to me, at Value Village for $15.00. Although deals like that don't come around every day they are out there
If you can't find it right away I'll be bumping the thread sometime tonight. I developed the film that was inside the camera when I got it, some of them aren't bad at all.

Here's a link to that pic I told you I'd get.

03-26-2010, 11:08 PM   #9
Site Supporter
stevebrot's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 26,158
QuoteOriginally posted by FHPhotographer Quote
...can somebody send me a high resolution TIFF scanned (?) image that I can run through the NIK program? I'll try all the film types listed here, and post them for review and comment...
Brian,
Programs like the NIK product emulate various films by curve manipulation and by introduction of "grain" artifact. The spectral sensitivity of popular films are published by the manufacturers as are the characteristic curves for negative density at different exposures. This data along with other characteristics such as grain structure, local contrast, and acuity are factored into the film emulation.

What you get is a best guess for what your digital photo would have looked like if it had been made from a particular film. Unfortunately that is all it is. The film type is only one aspect of what the final image looks like. The variables that determine how the final image looks run like this (assuming classic darkroom technique):
  • Film type
  • Exposure
  • Development, both type of developer and HOW it is done
  • Enlargement technique
  • Choice of paper for printing
  • Paper development and subsequent toning

For the "figital" approach with hard copy results, the last three points may be replaced by:
  • Scanner settings for contrast and response and low-density expansion
  • Post-processing/digital manipulation
  • Choice of papers/inks for hard copy along with printer settings

The bottom line is that the type of film is only the beginning of the creative process. I would suggest that rather than trying to determine whether your digital filters are any good, it might be better to use the filter as a creative tool to see what looks is closest to what you want.

I have never used and really cannot afford the NIK products, but I have used some free Lightroom film emulation presets. I shoot Rollei Retro 100 and also have the preset for the same film. The preset is similar, but that is as far as it goes. I generally have better luck doing the conversions myself and not worrying about what film it is supposed to look like .

As noted in the comments above...If you have an interest in B&W film images, the best and most satisfying route may be to spend some time with the medium. There is probably one or more clubs or user groups in your area that do traditional photography and which would be willing to help you along.

...just a thought.



Steve

BTW...a selection of my Rollei Retro 100 (Agfa APX 100) scans are available HERE
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
color, comparison, conversion, film, image, nik, print, scan, types
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Film Speed Setting BernardMarx Pentax Film SLR Discussion 4 06-22-2009 04:14 AM
For Sale - Sold: Pentax Film LX & MX & Glass DaddyLuna Sold Items 5 06-03-2009 02:09 PM
For Sale - Sold: Multiple Auto (Digital & Film) and Manual Lenses, flash + more jjdgti Sold Items 18 10-03-2008 09:30 AM
Closest Prime to DA* 300 for both Digital & Film? Scout Pro Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 2 07-15-2008 11:19 AM
crop factor, quality, digital to analog comparison MichaelRD Pentax DSLR Discussion 21 10-05-2006 06:13 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:53 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top