PEF or DNG?

jarnos · 03-08-2008, 08:50 AM

NaClH2O, try to shoot 2GB card full of PEFs and another time full of DNGs. I predict bigger difference in the number of images stored.

hhays · 03-08-2008, 11:14 AM

I shoot DNG, because I like to not convert on import into Lightroom. Why Process more than Necessary. I have filled cards with both PEF and DNG, my 4G cards hold 246 DNG's and 249 PEF's. Not a big enough difference to convert on import in my opinion.

smokey · 03-09-2008, 08:44 AM

I shot PEF on my DS. But the K10D PEF is different enough that my old PS CS will not open, and Adobe is not adding it to CS. So DNG for me now. CS likes it, so I like it.

sreeja · 03-12-2008, 02:53 AM

I don't use neither.What about you all.

deejjjaaaa · 01-17-2010, 01:54 PM

Originally posted by NaClH2O

I use Adobe's DNG converter to losslessly compress the DNG after I import them to my computer.

It is not a widely known fact (you will not read about this @ Barry Pearson's DNG scam website at least) that Adobe's own DNG converter will discard a lot of important raw data during the conversion of the native raw format to DNG file.

Thanks to GordonBGood who put a nice summary of how the data contained in the "black masked-to-light" pixels from a sensor can be used, the data that Adobe DNG converter will discard during the conversion w/o any warning of any kind:

"....

1) Use them to measure and back out Wide Band Vertical Patterns in the K10D and K20D.

2) Use them to tweak out the magenta to green tingeing from left to right that the K10D has at high ISO's or for highly boosted as to exposure and contrast images.

3) Use them to eliminate the border tingeing of the K20D that occurs in the same cases as the tingeing of the K10D above as is done using my Raw Border Correction (RBC) utility for the K20D.

4) Use them to measure and eliminate from the raw data the "Thin Green Line" problem of the K-7 for some camera samples when the sensor got warm had it not been fixed with a firmware update from Pentax.

5) Possibly use them to determine a different method of black level compensation for the K-x if necessary if conventional raw conversion methods produce any Horizontal Pattern Noise (HPN)
...." (c) GordonBGood

The point here ? Do not use Adobe DNG converter at all. And stay away from DNG format too.

Jasvox · 01-18-2010, 12:00 AM

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-beginners-corner-q/85538-pentax-ra...le-format.html

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-processing-printing-software-darkroo...aw-format.html

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-processing-printing-software-darkroo...at-vs-dng.html

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/72842-raw-shooting...ormat-dng.html

I could go on and on, but just letting you know that using the search function can turn up some already discussed threads about this subject, which may in fact be the most discussed topic on this forum over the past few years. I don't think anything has changed much.

Jason

Jodokast96 · 01-18-2010, 04:03 AM

Originally posted by Jasvox

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-beginners-corner-q/85538-pentax-ra...le-format.html

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-processing-printing-software-darkroo...aw-format.html

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-processing-printing-software-darkroo...at-vs-dng.html

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/72842-raw-shooting...ormat-dng.html

I could go on and on, but just letting you know that using the search function can turn up some already discussed threads about this subject, which may in fact be the most discussed topic on this forum over the past few years. I don't think anything has changed much.

Jason

Come on now, it's only been two years since this thread was last posted to.

Jasvox · 01-18-2010, 04:20 AM

and what has changed between PEF and DNG since then?

Jason

Jodokast96 · 01-18-2010, 04:31 AM

Well in searching a little for the source of what he posted, I found that that was just the latest entry on his blog. Still haven't found the source for that blog post though to see just how new it may be.

Jodokast96 · 01-18-2010, 04:45 AM

Ok, found it. workflow dng or Raw (PEF) [Page 1]: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review And it only appears to apply to photos converted to DNG from PEF, not those shot in the camera as DNG. Deejjjaaaa seems to have a beef with Adobe.

attack11 · 01-18-2010, 05:25 AM

Originally posted by Jasvox

and what has changed between PEF and DNG since then?

Jason

a lot. the new dng 1.3 spec allows for more non-destructible edits to the dng such as dust spots, maybe red eye (was this 1.2 or 1.3)? and a few other things i don't use.

deejjjaaaa · 01-19-2010, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by Jodokast96

Ok, found it. workflow dng or Raw (PEF) [Page 1]: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review And it only appears to apply to photos converted to DNG from PEF, not those shot in the camera as DNG. Deejjjaaaa seems to have a beef with Adobe.

my beef is simple - they discard raw data and keep silence about that plus good raw converters like C1, DxO, Bibble do not have the same support for DNG as they have for PEF (and Adobe products are as good w/ PEF as w/ DNG)...

deejjjaaaa · 01-19-2010, 01:26 PM

Originally posted by Jodokast96

Well in searching a little for the source of what he posted, I found that that was just the latest entry on his blog. Still haven't found the source for that blog post though to see just how new it may be.

if you are asking about GordonBGood - check Pentax forum @ dpreview - he writes there... I will help you with the search though, just in case - workflow dng or Raw (PEF) [Page 1]: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

you might want to hear the author of rawnalyze (Gabor Schorr) too

http://forums.adobe.com/thread/528900?tstart=0

"...This attitude of Adobe we know it better what is useful and what is not comes up time and again. For example the masked area is removed from Nikon D90 and D300 files as well; although the pixel values of the image are black level corrected already, still that data should not be removed. The fact, that one doesn't know any usefulnes of that data is not the same that there can be no use of it...."

deejjjaaaa · 01-19-2010, 01:33 PM

Originally posted by attack11

a lot. the new dng 1.3 spec allows for more non-destructible edits to the dng such as dust spots, maybe red eye (was this 1.2 or 1.3)? and a few other things i don't use.

all raw converters are doing non destructive edits to all raw files... except may be Adobe's own ( Adobe Forums: I can´t extract all raws from dng )

GeneV · 01-20-2010, 08:38 AM

My vote has changed a bit since the thread began. The additon of the K-x to my stable has forced me back to DNG for that camera, since I'm not ready to upgrade my software.

View Poll Results: Do you use PEF or DNG?
PEF	99	38.22%
DNG	137	52.90%
Neither	7	2.70%
Both	16	6.18%
Voters: 259. You may not vote on this poll

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03-08-2008, 08:50 AM	#31
jarnos Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Finland Posts: 31	NaClH2O, try to shoot 2GB card full of PEFs and another time full of DNGs. I predict bigger difference in the number of images stored.

03-08-2008, 11:14 AM	#32
hhays Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 39	I shoot DNG, because I like to not convert on import into Lightroom. Why Process more than Necessary. I have filled cards with both PEF and DNG, my 4G cards hold 246 DNG's and 249 PEF's. Not a big enough difference to convert on import in my opinion.

03-09-2008, 08:44 AM	#33
smokey Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Salina, KS Posts: 92	I shot PEF on my DS. But the K10D PEF is different enough that my old PS CS will not open, and Adobe is not adding it to CS. So DNG for me now. CS likes it, so I like it.

03-12-2008, 02:53 AM	#34
sreeja Inactive Account Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 5	I don't use neither.What about you all.

01-17-2010, 01:54 PM	#35
deejjjaaaa Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: steel city / rust belt Posts: 2,043	Originally posted by NaClH2O I use Adobe's DNG converter to losslessly compress the DNG after I import them to my computer. It is not a widely known fact (you will not read about this @ Barry Pearson's DNG scam website at least) that Adobe's own DNG converter will discard a lot of important raw data during the conversion of the native raw format to DNG file. Thanks to GordonBGood who put a nice summary of how the data contained in the "black masked-to-light" pixels from a sensor can be used, the data that Adobe DNG converter will discard during the conversion w/o any warning of any kind: ".... 1) Use them to measure and back out Wide Band Vertical Patterns in the K10D and K20D. 2) Use them to tweak out the magenta to green tingeing from left to right that the K10D has at high ISO's or for highly boosted as to exposure and contrast images. 3) Use them to eliminate the border tingeing of the K20D that occurs in the same cases as the tingeing of the K10D above as is done using my Raw Border Correction (RBC) utility for the K20D. 4) Use them to measure and eliminate from the raw data the "Thin Green Line" problem of the K-7 for some camera samples when the sensor got warm had it not been fixed with a firmware update from Pentax. 5) Possibly use them to determine a different method of black level compensation for the K-x if necessary if conventional raw conversion methods produce any Horizontal Pattern Noise (HPN) ...." (c) GordonBGood The point here ? Do not use Adobe DNG converter at all. And stay away from DNG format too.

01-18-2010, 12:00 AM	#36
Jasvox Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 3,107	https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-beginners-corner-q/85538-pentax-ra...le-format.html https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-processing-printing-software-darkroo...aw-format.html https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-processing-printing-software-darkroo...at-vs-dng.html https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/72842-raw-shooting...ormat-dng.html I could go on and on, but just letting you know that using the search function can turn up some already discussed threads about this subject, which may in fact be the most discussed topic on this forum over the past few years. I don't think anything has changed much. Jason

01-18-2010, 04:03 AM	#37
Jodokast96 Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Erial, NJ USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,134 Original Poster	Originally posted by Jasvox https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-beginners-corner-q/85538-pentax-ra...le-format.html https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-processing-printing-software-darkroo...aw-format.html https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-processing-printing-software-darkroo...at-vs-dng.html https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/72842-raw-shooting...ormat-dng.html I could go on and on, but just letting you know that using the search function can turn up some already discussed threads about this subject, which may in fact be the most discussed topic on this forum over the past few years. I don't think anything has changed much. Jason Come on now, it's only been two years since this thread was last posted to.

01-18-2010, 04:20 AM	#38
Jasvox Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 3,107	and what has changed between PEF and DNG since then? Jason

01-18-2010, 04:31 AM	#39
Jodokast96 Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Erial, NJ USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,134 Original Poster	Well in searching a little for the source of what he posted, I found that that was just the latest entry on his blog. Still haven't found the source for that blog post though to see just how new it may be.

01-18-2010, 04:45 AM	#40
Jodokast96 Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Erial, NJ USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,134 Original Poster	Ok, found it. workflow dng or Raw (PEF) [Page 1]: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review And it only appears to apply to photos converted to DNG from PEF, not those shot in the camera as DNG. Deejjjaaaa seems to have a beef with Adobe.

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01-18-2010, 05:25 AM	#41
attack11 Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Ottawa, ON - Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 658	Originally posted by Jasvox and what has changed between PEF and DNG since then? Jason a lot. the new dng 1.3 spec allows for more non-destructible edits to the dng such as dust spots, maybe red eye (was this 1.2 or 1.3)? and a few other things i don't use.

01-19-2010, 01:21 PM	#42
deejjjaaaa Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: steel city / rust belt Posts: 2,043	Originally posted by Jodokast96 Ok, found it. workflow dng or Raw (PEF) [Page 1]: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review And it only appears to apply to photos converted to DNG from PEF, not those shot in the camera as DNG. Deejjjaaaa seems to have a beef with Adobe. my beef is simple - they discard raw data and keep silence about that plus good raw converters like C1, DxO, Bibble do not have the same support for DNG as they have for PEF (and Adobe products are as good w/ PEF as w/ DNG)...

01-19-2010, 01:26 PM	#43
deejjjaaaa Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: steel city / rust belt Posts: 2,043	Originally posted by Jodokast96 Well in searching a little for the source of what he posted, I found that that was just the latest entry on his blog. Still haven't found the source for that blog post though to see just how new it may be. if you are asking about GordonBGood - check Pentax forum @ dpreview - he writes there... I will help you with the search though, just in case - workflow dng or Raw (PEF) [Page 1]: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review you might want to hear the author of rawnalyze (Gabor Schorr) too http://forums.adobe.com/thread/528900?tstart=0 "...This attitude of Adobe we know it better what is useful and what is not comes up time and again. For example the masked area is removed from Nikon D90 and D300 files as well; although the pixel values of the image are black level corrected already, still that data should not be removed. The fact, that one doesn't know any usefulnes of that data is not the same that there can be no use of it...."

01-19-2010, 01:33 PM	#44
deejjjaaaa Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: steel city / rust belt Posts: 2,043	Originally posted by attack11 a lot. the new dng 1.3 spec allows for more non-destructible edits to the dng such as dust spots, maybe red eye (was this 1.2 or 1.3)? and a few other things i don't use. all raw converters are doing non destructive edits to all raw files... except may be Adobe's own ( Adobe Forums: I can´t extract all raws from dng )

01-20-2010, 08:38 AM	#45
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	My vote has changed a bit since the thread began. The additon of the K-x to my stable has forced me back to DNG for that camera, since I'm not ready to upgrade my software.